CUJBOMNIII: Nahom and Laman -- more debunking than necessary
Posted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:17 am
Here are the most common factors in the Book of Mormon:
26 rn 0.08873720136518772
['aaron', 'irreantum', 'migron', 'moriancumer', 'morianton', 'moriantum', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'siron', 'zerin', 'aaron', 'amaron', 'ammaron', 'ammoron', 'amoron', 'corianton', 'coriantor', 'coriantum', 'coriantumr', 'emron', 'morianton', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'pahoran']
24 mn 0.08191126279863481
['ammonihah', 'mount', 'cumeni', 'hermounts', 'kishkumen', 'laman', 'madmenah', 'manti', 'minon', 'Mormon', 'aminadab', 'aminadi', 'ammon', 'benjamin', 'cumenihah', 'helaman', 'kishkumen', 'kumen', 'kumenonhi', 'laman', 'lamoni', 'manti', 'Mormon', 'pacumeni']
21 lm 0.07167235494880546
['ablom', 'elam', 'gallim', 'helam', 'jerusalem', 'laman', 'lemuel', 'shelem', 'shilom', 'shimnilom', 'helam', 'helaman', 'helem', 'lamah', 'laman', 'lamoni', 'lemuel', 'limhah', 'limher', 'limhi', 'shiblom']
20 mr 0.06825938566552901
['cumorah', 'gomorrah', 'moriancumer', 'morianton', 'moriantum', 'Mormon', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'amaron', 'ammaron', 'ammoron', 'amoron', 'emer', 'morianton', 'Mormon', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'omer']
18 nh 0.06143344709897611
['ammonihah', 'amnihu', 'gadiomnah', 'madmenah', 'moronihah', 'nahom', 'nehor', 'noah', 'onihah', 'antionah', 'cumenihah', 'giddonah', 'gidgiddonah', 'mathonihah', 'moronihah', 'nehor', 'noah', 'zerahemnah']
17 hr 0.05802047781569966
['corihor', 'hermounts', 'horeb', 'nehor', 'sherrizah', 'shurr', 'brother', 'cohor', 'corihor', 'ether', 'hearthom', 'korihor', 'limher', 'nehor', 'pahoran', 'shared', 'sherem']
17 hm 0.05802047781569966
['carchemish', 'hamath', 'nahom', 'shem', 'shemlon', 'shim', 'shimnilom', 'zarahemla', 'chemish', 'ethem', 'hearthom', 'hem', 'himni', 'shem', 'shemnon', 'zarahemla', 'zerahemnah']
Notice anything? The apologist's favorite cities are NHM and LMN. LMN comes from the second and third most common factors in the Book of Mormon, and NHM comes from just down the list. "Bountiful" or "agosh" might have at least raised an eyebrow.
The apologists start down the path of, what are the purely random odds of three letters? But real words in any language aren't purely random, that's why in "Wheel of Fortune" there are certain letters contestants start guessing with. Not just in the Book of Mormon, but in the Mayan names and also the Latin names from the Anthon dictionary (thanks jfro18!) definitely have their trademarks.
Based on the frequency of the factors above as found in the Book of Mormon, I'd say NHM and LMN aren't worthy of consideration without some serious evidence from the archeological side.
Some further information on Nahom:
Looks like they missed a factor: mt. NHMT or HMT, if we are to clap for 3/4 would have been more impressive since:
5 mt 0.017064846416382253
['hamath', 'ramath', 'mathoni', 'mathonihah', 'timothy']
Not only are NH and HM really common in the Book of Mormon, but it isn't even NHM, it's NHMT! And not only that, I wasn't as skeptical as I should have been when I originally did the analysis, because "hm" is a consonant cluster -- right, I get it that a vowel may have been there in the past, but I threw out these clusters to be more generous to the Book of Mormon. Here's what happened: The first analysis is overall frequency of the factors. The second analysis is context specific information. One of the context specific tools i had was to look at all the names w/or without factor input within x number of verses of the name of interest, in this case Nahom. The Nephi narratives have very few names, this is really story-book stuff rather than hard-core Old Testament mimicking. So there really wouldn't be a lot of "gadomizing" that would count against Nahom. The closest is within 100 verses; neum, and given so few place names, yes, even that raises an eyebrow against Nahom.
Unless you count consonant clusters, and then (the numbers are verse numbers):
['427', '427']
['nephi', 'nephi']
['428', '428', '428', '428', '428']
['ishmael', 'nahom', 'nephi', 'ishmael', 'nephi']
['429', '429', '429', '429', '429']
['ishmael', 'jerusalem', 'nephi', 'ishmael', 'nephi']
['430', '430', '430']
"Ishmael" being the dude burried in Nahom and on the mind of the author when the name of the place of burial if fabricated also has an "hm" like Nihmite. The counter argument would be that c-clusters can count for the historical hit but not so much for the fictional guess without a better match, since we have to consider Joseph Smith is thinking in terms of how things sound. I would only accept that halfway: it does less for motivating the guess than it subtracts from the possibility that a vowel could have been there, but it's something. Anyway, I figured that context specific information was more or less neutral for NHM.
LMN superficially is a better guess than NHM because the word is Lamanai. But, LM and NM are somewhat common in Myan still, MN is #9 and LM is in the top half still:
12 mn 0.03896103896103896
['blackman', 'chunlimon', 'kaminaljuyu', 'lamanai', 'managua', 'maní', 'minanha', 'monte', 'mountain', 'pomona', 'teleman', 'xkalachetzimin']
9 lm 0.02922077922077922
['balamku', 'balamtun', 'chojolom', 'chunlimon', 'dzilam', 'lamanai', 'teleman', 'tulum', 'xcalumkin']
seems like a pretty superficial connection.
Then factor in all the stuff that came out of the Bayes thread. Lemmie found that Lamanai is continuously occupied for thousands of years and exists in the lowlands whereas the Book of Mormon supposedly is a Highland book for the LGT. And then in the Book of Mormon, it's mentioned a single time in context with it being destroyed.
Other context specific information is the names of other cities invented on the spot just to be destroyed (and also in the prior 2 verses), most of which are named after the baddest dudes in the narrative. That we'd find a bad guy city of "Laman" invented at the very same time as "kishkumen" and "Gad" just to be destroyed for wickedness in proportion to their names, I think that is overpowers other ways Laman in this context might be linked to similar names, especially since it's about the 27th reuse of the name.
26 rn 0.08873720136518772
['aaron', 'irreantum', 'migron', 'moriancumer', 'morianton', 'moriantum', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'siron', 'zerin', 'aaron', 'amaron', 'ammaron', 'ammoron', 'amoron', 'corianton', 'coriantor', 'coriantum', 'coriantumr', 'emron', 'morianton', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'pahoran']
24 mn 0.08191126279863481
['ammonihah', 'mount', 'cumeni', 'hermounts', 'kishkumen', 'laman', 'madmenah', 'manti', 'minon', 'Mormon', 'aminadab', 'aminadi', 'ammon', 'benjamin', 'cumenihah', 'helaman', 'kishkumen', 'kumen', 'kumenonhi', 'laman', 'lamoni', 'manti', 'Mormon', 'pacumeni']
21 lm 0.07167235494880546
['ablom', 'elam', 'gallim', 'helam', 'jerusalem', 'laman', 'lemuel', 'shelem', 'shilom', 'shimnilom', 'helam', 'helaman', 'helem', 'lamah', 'laman', 'lamoni', 'lemuel', 'limhah', 'limher', 'limhi', 'shiblom']
20 mr 0.06825938566552901
['cumorah', 'gomorrah', 'moriancumer', 'morianton', 'moriantum', 'Mormon', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'amaron', 'ammaron', 'ammoron', 'amoron', 'emer', 'morianton', 'Mormon', 'moron', 'moroni', 'moronihah', 'omer']
18 nh 0.06143344709897611
['ammonihah', 'amnihu', 'gadiomnah', 'madmenah', 'moronihah', 'nahom', 'nehor', 'noah', 'onihah', 'antionah', 'cumenihah', 'giddonah', 'gidgiddonah', 'mathonihah', 'moronihah', 'nehor', 'noah', 'zerahemnah']
17 hr 0.05802047781569966
['corihor', 'hermounts', 'horeb', 'nehor', 'sherrizah', 'shurr', 'brother', 'cohor', 'corihor', 'ether', 'hearthom', 'korihor', 'limher', 'nehor', 'pahoran', 'shared', 'sherem']
17 hm 0.05802047781569966
['carchemish', 'hamath', 'nahom', 'shem', 'shemlon', 'shim', 'shimnilom', 'zarahemla', 'chemish', 'ethem', 'hearthom', 'hem', 'himni', 'shem', 'shemnon', 'zarahemla', 'zerahemnah']
Notice anything? The apologist's favorite cities are NHM and LMN. LMN comes from the second and third most common factors in the Book of Mormon, and NHM comes from just down the list. "Bountiful" or "agosh" might have at least raised an eyebrow.
The apologists start down the path of, what are the purely random odds of three letters? But real words in any language aren't purely random, that's why in "Wheel of Fortune" there are certain letters contestants start guessing with. Not just in the Book of Mormon, but in the Mayan names and also the Latin names from the Anthon dictionary (thanks jfro18!) definitely have their trademarks.
Based on the frequency of the factors above as found in the Book of Mormon, I'd say NHM and LMN aren't worthy of consideration without some serious evidence from the archeological side.
Some further information on Nahom:
Phillip Jenkins wrote:To give the authors credit, they honestly cite the inscription word as Nihmite, without pretending it was “really” Nahom. Yet despite this precise quotation, the story morphs and expands in popular retelling, until it becomes something like “The Book of Mormon describes a place in Arabia called Nahom
Looks like they missed a factor: mt. NHMT or HMT, if we are to clap for 3/4 would have been more impressive since:
5 mt 0.017064846416382253
['hamath', 'ramath', 'mathoni', 'mathonihah', 'timothy']
Not only are NH and HM really common in the Book of Mormon, but it isn't even NHM, it's NHMT! And not only that, I wasn't as skeptical as I should have been when I originally did the analysis, because "hm" is a consonant cluster -- right, I get it that a vowel may have been there in the past, but I threw out these clusters to be more generous to the Book of Mormon. Here's what happened: The first analysis is overall frequency of the factors. The second analysis is context specific information. One of the context specific tools i had was to look at all the names w/or without factor input within x number of verses of the name of interest, in this case Nahom. The Nephi narratives have very few names, this is really story-book stuff rather than hard-core Old Testament mimicking. So there really wouldn't be a lot of "gadomizing" that would count against Nahom. The closest is within 100 verses; neum, and given so few place names, yes, even that raises an eyebrow against Nahom.
Unless you count consonant clusters, and then (the numbers are verse numbers):
['427', '427']
['nephi', 'nephi']
['428', '428', '428', '428', '428']
['ishmael', 'nahom', 'nephi', 'ishmael', 'nephi']
['429', '429', '429', '429', '429']
['ishmael', 'jerusalem', 'nephi', 'ishmael', 'nephi']
['430', '430', '430']
"Ishmael" being the dude burried in Nahom and on the mind of the author when the name of the place of burial if fabricated also has an "hm" like Nihmite. The counter argument would be that c-clusters can count for the historical hit but not so much for the fictional guess without a better match, since we have to consider Joseph Smith is thinking in terms of how things sound. I would only accept that halfway: it does less for motivating the guess than it subtracts from the possibility that a vowel could have been there, but it's something. Anyway, I figured that context specific information was more or less neutral for NHM.
LMN superficially is a better guess than NHM because the word is Lamanai. But, LM and NM are somewhat common in Myan still, MN is #9 and LM is in the top half still:
12 mn 0.03896103896103896
['blackman', 'chunlimon', 'kaminaljuyu', 'lamanai', 'managua', 'maní', 'minanha', 'monte', 'mountain', 'pomona', 'teleman', 'xkalachetzimin']
9 lm 0.02922077922077922
['balamku', 'balamtun', 'chojolom', 'chunlimon', 'dzilam', 'lamanai', 'teleman', 'tulum', 'xcalumkin']
seems like a pretty superficial connection.
Then factor in all the stuff that came out of the Bayes thread. Lemmie found that Lamanai is continuously occupied for thousands of years and exists in the lowlands whereas the Book of Mormon supposedly is a Highland book for the LGT. And then in the Book of Mormon, it's mentioned a single time in context with it being destroyed.
3 Nephi 9:10 10 And behold, the city of Laman, and the city of Josh, and the city of Gad, and the city of Kishkumen, have I caused to be burned with fire, and the inhabitants thereof, because of their wickedness in casting out the prophets, and stoning those whom I did send to declare unto them concerning their wickedness and their abominations.
Other context specific information is the names of other cities invented on the spot just to be destroyed (and also in the prior 2 verses), most of which are named after the baddest dudes in the narrative. That we'd find a bad guy city of "Laman" invented at the very same time as "kishkumen" and "Gad" just to be destroyed for wickedness in proportion to their names, I think that is overpowers other ways Laman in this context might be linked to similar names, especially since it's about the 27th reuse of the name.