DiscussMormonism.com

mentalgymnast wrote:
What brings that happiness and joy will vary from person to person...just as it does here. Why some are placed and/or fall into one position vs. another while here on earth is in the hands of God. I do believe, however, that if we find out that the cards are stacked one way or the other such as to provide us with a greater ability to serve and bring others to Christ and His goodness, we ought to hop on board the train and ride it.

Regards,
MG

I took the ride and got bored and got off. All the benefits for me were only benefits in light of Mormonism. That is to say, things like the holy ghost weren't a Mormon thing. Everyone experienced the same spirit, delight, and feelings as the Mormon. There was no actual benefit. It was simply attaching a name to a benefit that everyone enjoyed or potentially enjoyed and said it was unique to Mormons. But I will add if there is any particular benefit given to Mormons, then good for them. I don't think I'd want it anyway.

God is said to mourn for those who decide not the believe. If so, God's mourning might be forever, as people will always be as new worlds come and go, and he'll have to cry as always when he gets upset that the people weren't doing the faithful thing. Perhaps he'll get so upset and wipe 'em out with a flood or competing nation or army, as his anger gets all kindled at the fools who don't know him. Even in the end he'll apparently exclaim to many a presumed believer that they really didn't know him and they'll be sent to their own hells. Maybe he feels good and his upsetness and anger is just affectation. Maybe he doesn't care at all. I suppose if I'm somehow turned around and find myself sitting on his right side watching others hurting while god fakes getting upset and angry at them, only to not really care...well, that sounds hellish to me.

I mean any way you slice it it sounds like hell. But for those who want to be above the others...well, I suppose it's made for you.

Stem wrote:

I think God has a way to save the psychopath (and those that are subject to the maladies listed in my bullet points) in the eternal scheme of things. Just like He has a way to save you or me. The toss of the dice, however, gives you and me a greater degree of freedom to choose.

Yes. The arbitrariness gives some benefit over another.

I'm glad we can agree on that. I should point out, however, that I'm doubtful that in any afterlife the cards fall where they may in any sense of randomness or chance. I think that in the final analysis, we will have direct control over the toss of dice. We'll know whether they're coming up sixes or not. Here on earth, with a veil of forgetfulness and lack of full understanding, we are not privy to why the cards are stacked one way or the other. We can only take advantage of the way the cards are dealt.

Stem wrote:But your thinking that God saves the psychopath seems odd.

I'm saying the potential for the psychopath to be saved is the same as it is for you or for me, yes.

Stem wrote:Who does God reserve for OUTER DARKNESS?

Go back and read your Doctrine and Covenants.

Stem wrote:Is it not possible or even likely that some psychopaths are heading to the real live hell and thus won't be saved?

Sure. Not sure what you mean by "real live hell", but be that as it may...yes, I think that everyone will have the same shot at eternal bliss and happiness.

Stem wrote:They might be among those for whom it was better they were never born. I mean possible, right?

I'm willing to leave that question for God.

Stem wrote:But, it appears you think God will just save those who have certain maladies.

Not "just save", but provide a way in which they have the same opportunity to be saved as you or me. It's a fairness issue in my mind.

Regards,
MG

Stem wrote:But for those who want to be above the others...well, I suppose it's made for you.

That is honestly not in my mindset.

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast wrote:

Stem wrote:But for those who want to be above the others...well, I suppose it's made for you.

That is honestly not in my mindset.

That you felt like you had to make this disclaimer says a lot.

Thank you for walking us through some of your thoughts in this thread, Stem. I've enjoyed reading them.

fetchface wrote:One thing I wonder about is whether it is an accident that the church is so bad at teaching morality.

I believe that most in the Church think that morality is no more than obedience.

Morley wrote:
That you felt like you had to make this disclaimer says a lot.

That's why I said what I said. Apparently you see it as somehow being inappropriate? If so, that's your issue not mine. I was being strictly honest. I felt like it was important to point out that there was at least one person that doesn't have their heart set upon some version of elitism that also happens to be an active member of the CofJCofLDS.

Stem knows of others that are elitist and/or holier than thou.

He pointed me out in particular so I set the record straight.

There, are we done with that little sidestep?

Regards,
MG

Morley wrote:

fetchface wrote:One thing I wonder about is whether it is an accident that the church is so bad at teaching morality.

I believe that most in the Church think that morality is no more than obedience.

Of course you would. Otherwise you might have to admit that there are a whole lot of people that want to do what they do for the right reason. Because of their love for others. Because they desire to serve. Because they feel good when they are doing the moral/right thing. Because they honestly want to improve and become better humans and sons and daughters of God.

Regards,
MG

mentalgymnast wrote:
Stem knows of others that are elitist and/or holier than thou. : wink :

He pointed me out in particular so I set the record straight.

Where did Stem point you out, 'in particular,' for being elitist or holier-than-thou?

Morley wrote:

fetchface wrote:One thing I wonder about is whether it is an accident that the church is so bad at teaching morality.

I believe that most in the Church think that morality is no more than obedience.

I would agree. Falling in line seems to be the over-arching requirement. I remember repeatedly receiving that assurance that even if your leaders are wrong, if you follow them you will not be held accountable for what you do if you were just doing what you were told to do. Obedience was paramount. Now it’s disguised by saying of course you have to receive an assurance your leaders are right, but if your assurance is different than your leaders, the advice is to go back and try again. Pray until you agree with us. a.k.a., obey blindly.