Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Shulem »

Everybody Wang Chung wrote:Well, from Blake’s comments it seems like he only wants to talk about his “hair piece” or his “white ass.”

I can’t believe what I’m reading. The only explanation I can think of is that Blake must be on some kind of medication like Xanax or Ambien.


I wonder what his bishop or stake president would think if he saw these online antics? Or worse yet, President NelSatan?

One thing is for sure, Blake will never, ever, appear in a future MEET THE Mormons movie. His career in testifying in public for the church is over before it even got started. He's now tainted goods for the church.

:biggrin:
_Maksutov
_Emeritus
Posts: 12480
Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Maksutov »

I had no idea that Blake Ostler considers himself foremost an "American philosopher". :lol: :lol: :lol:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blake_Ostler

Ostler has published widely on Mormon philosophy in journals such as Religious Studies, International Journal for the Philosophy of Religion, Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, BYU Studies and the FARMS Review of Books. He is best known for his award winning and groundbreaking four volume series entitled Exploring Mormon Thought. The first volume, The Attributes of God, addresses the attributes of God from a Mormon perspective. Ostler argues that God cannot know what acts a person will freely do in the future. The first volume also expounds a Mormon Christology or theory of Christ as both fully human and fully divine at once. Ostler also assesses the attributes of divine power, divine mutability, divine pathos, divine temporality and human and divine nature.

..................

It's amazing how much caca some folks can get out of a con-man's hoax. So much word salad, so little nutrients. :cool: How big is your house of cards, Blake? I feel a mighty wind coming....
"God" is the original deus ex machina. --Maksutov
_Water Dog
_Emeritus
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:10 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Water Dog »

I've crossed paths with Blake many times online over the years. This behavior fits quite well with those experiences. To say that he's insecure would be a polite description. Didn't know he had a wikipedia page though. That's, lol, interesting.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Shulem »

Brother Ostler,

Welcome to Mormon Discussions. Come on in and discuss what you want with who you want. Pick your poison and take your best shot.


Image

Welcome Blake
_Everybody Wang Chung
_Emeritus
Posts: 4056
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:53 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Everybody Wang Chung »

Blake has a documented history of being unhinged. Here are some very interesting online comments that Blake Ostler has posted in the past:

https://disqus.com/by/disqus_Drq9Iz54AQ/

Blake Guest 5 years ago
Sources? As it turns out, you do not know what the hell you are talking about.

Blake Danny 5 years ago
Danny: There are few crocks more crooked than someone who pretends to know what just ain't so -- as in your case. The evidence just will not support the kinds of prattle you are peddling.

Blake Danny 5 years ago
Danny: You are so full of it you have no idea. Look you cannot buffalo me -- I know the evidence. What I gave you was a gift of real assessment of evidence instead of anti-Mormon bull kindergarten crap.

Blake SmallAxe 5 years ago
SmallAxe: I know, I know. Sometimes I just cannot help it. I want to hold up a mirror and say, "See, you are a troll. Can't you see that?!"

Blake 5 years ago
Since TT does not give us his name or training he too fails to qualify for a substantive discussion -- not to mention failing to take personal accountability for what he writes. It is just a drive-by shooting. I suggest we let him him languish in his arrogance and non-existent scholarly "credentials" -- until he establishes otherwise. He simply fails to deal with any substance regarding what Gee has written and has engaged irresponsibly.

Blake 3 years ago
Looking for ways to justify your review in light of numbers is just moronic. And don't give me the "I am a critic so I have superior judgment" BS. I had no reason to like the movie but I just did. I hate to see critics acting like 3-year-ols to justify their negative reviews with obvious confirmation bias. Just stop it.

Blake Geno1987 3 years ago
Speaking of dicks. Have you even seen it? I also went in expecting a train-wreck and saw a movie that was beautifully crafted and epic. I enjoyed the hell out of it when I was prepared to hate because the critics are telling all of the sheeple what to think -- and it is clear you are one of them.

Blake 3 years ago
Geek: Please learn to speak English before posting your supposedly superior viewing opinion. The word is "worst" and not "worse." OK? Got it?

Blake 4 years ago
Brain-damaged teenagers and failure of story telling? Dead Pool was like an immature temper tamprum for those whose vocabulary allowed them to say "poo poo" and "pee pee" as a joke. Really?

Blake They Call Me Handsome Pants 4 years ago
Your assertions is both without substance and without merit -- mere assertions show absolutely nothing, remember? I will not be responding further to you until you apologize for you blatantly incorrect accusation that I walked away as some sort of admission. What is your real name coward?

Blake They Call Me Handsome Pants 4 years ago
I could care less what you demand. As a careful scholar, I will take whatever time is necessary. And who are you to "give me time"? Who died and made you the ruler?and let me have your real name coward

Blake Mark Hansen 4 years ago
Mark: this statement alone shows that you are a theological first-grader when it comes to Mormonism.

Blake Shelama 5 years ago
Shelama: My articles have been published in Religious Studies out of Oxford and the Internal Journal of Religious Studies out of the Netherlands -- so your ignorance is just being magnified. Do not further embarrass yourself. Really, just stop now while you are merely naïve.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."

Daniel C. Peterson, 2014
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Boy--I had no idea that he has such a history of being a hot-head. That's quite disappointing. There's nothing more pathetic than a grown man who can't control his anger.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_Symmachus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Symmachus »

I find this the most revealing comment offered by Mr. Ostler made over Faith-Promoting Rumor:

Let me know who you are so that I can see who I am dealing with you coward.

I pass over the wondrously comical possibilities left open by the lack of a comma in this sentence, because even more ridiculous is the premise: not the words or ideas of the person but the person behind those words is what matters.

The pomposity and mock-heroics that Mr. Ostler displays here are comic in their own way: in another comment at Faith-Promoting Rumor, he imagines himself bravely standing for "personal accountability" in being a complete asshole under his real name, whereas he slanders SmallAxe and Yakov ben Tov as cowards for the spineless act of presenting ideas with a little warranted criticism under names not their own (so we presume).

Would it matter if we knew their names? Of course not. It makes as little difference to me whether anyone at Faith-Promoting Rumor or anyone here is actually William Barr as it would if they were Roseanne Barr. I have formed my view of them and anyone else who posts this way purely from what they say and how they interact. I hope others do the same towards me; it is possible that I have an Ivy League PhD and rest in an ivory tower of great height from which I could piss on the un-doctored likes of Mr. Blake Ostler, were I the Swiftian sort. On the other hand, I might be a former librarian living in Parowan, invited by the market to retire very early from that vocation because my AA degree from (then) Dixie College cannot compete with the MLS graduates from (now) UVU. Would it make my philological investigations and critiques here any more or less valid or accurate for that reason? Of course not. They should be judged on their merits. It is pure peer review, only democratic rather than hierarchical.

When he, like the other FARMS-types, posts under his own name, Mr. Ostler does he so not because it helps him to temper his behavior (obviously!) but because 1) it inflates his credibility as a non-coward in the eyes of his admirers, and 2) his name carries with it a certain reputation that should impose some restraint on his adversaries in dialogue. In short, his name comes with ready-made authority. If it were some pseudonymous guy commenting as Ostler does at Faith-Promoting Rumor, the effect would be quite different and irrelevant.

Authority largely matters to people when they are forced by necessity to appeal to authority—if you need a doctor, say—or when authority imposes itself on them—the police, say—but there are some people whose nature inclines them to find heat and passion in the luster of authority (I believe there is a name for them).

I have been very naïve, perhaps stubbornly so, in holding to the belief that these so-called apologists are merely passionate partisans. I have a hard time seeing Hugh Nibley as a liar all around, though it is clear to those with the skills to detect his deception that he was indeed deceptive in numerous instances. He certainly was no authoritarian. John Gee's use of the evidence in the case of these manuscripts I have chosen to see as incompetence (branding an interpretation or an editorial choice a "mistake" rather than acknowledging a difference of opinion or editorial practice), though in other instances—I'm thinking especially of that Coptic story of Abraham and one of the Shapurs of Persia—it is hard not to see what he does there as total deception, given that he can read the language. Peterson I see as just an impresario who enjoys controlling discussion through snark (he does plagiarize, but on a blog, so it's hard for me to take even that seriously, since we start from a very low base-line with him; if he were a serious scholar with a published record, I'd feel differently). Midgley is grandpa Simpson now, but I hear in his younger days he had more humane approach to people on the opposite side of his beliefs. I am quite sure that if I had a spouse die before me, I would find great balm for my loneliness and longing as I age in being completely vicious to strangers online (the guy takes seriously comments on the Salt Lake Tribune website, which should tell you about how seriously anyone should take him).

I hope Ostler is not representative, though. It is hard to consider such a one as this to be a decent person (but let us emphasize our hope that this is not representative, that it is, rather, an unfortunate but rule-breaking exception):

I desire to know identities because I have a deep seated belief in personal accountability for actions. I want to know who says such nasty things and let others know how loathsome some commenting here.truly are. I have already learned 2 identities. One used a vpn but it was easy to crack because they used the same moniker before the vpn. I was not surprised and I think those who deal with them will be quite interested in their conduct and comments here and elsewhere.


Well, his thuggish and authoritarian tactics are obvious, but do you catch the elision? He slides from an admirably passionate commitment to personal accountability, which is supposed to lull us into a sense of justification and perhaps forgiveness for his reprehensible threats, down to a primitive form of communal justice. He wants a public flogging for his enemies, people whose greatest crime is disagreeing with him in public, which he takes as a sign of disrespect. The first kind cannot be enforced because it is a matter of individual conscience and is guilt-based, the second must be enforced as a matter of honor and operates on public shame. If one really cared about personal accountability, one would not need to know the names and identities of strangers whose words seem hostile, for they have their own conscience to accuse them, don't they? The real accountability he desires here is accountability to him.

And anyway, his use of his name online doesn't seem to keep him from being a complete prick. The man displays no shame in his comments at Faith-Promoting Rumor. Why does he think it will work for anyone else? Perhaps because it is a rule that should apply to those beneath him in the chain of theological authority: he is a real philosopher and so can live by a higher moral code than the mere chatterers at Faith-Promoting Rumor (to say nothing of me and my fellow reprobates here).

I had been intending to read his stuff for years until I heard him on a podcast a little over a year ago. The interview included near the beginning an interesting biographical story—interesting, because it's what he wanted to us listeners to know about him: decades afterwards, he was still immensely proud of the fact that he had solved (in his mind) some theological problem or other when he was very young (the the first down of youth had come upon his chin and cheeks but only a few years), and especially that his solution had attracted the attention of Neal Maxwell, who I guess was quite awed by the then boy wonder and future online thug, as he had him in for a private meeting (I think it was Maxwell—in any case, it was not some anonymous authority, and he clearly loved the attention from that great-famed authority). Then followed more airy-fairy theology before an argument of sorts based on the etymology of the Latin verb commendo (a species of non sequitur that was supposed to tell us what a "commandment" really is....suffice it to say, it did make me think of Mormon commandments about masturbation in a newly ironic light). Despite all his attempts to say something meaningful about Mormonism, the main points I got from the podcast were that 1) Blake Ostler loathes academia (hey, I'm first in line to that show) and 2) he was hugely impressed by his own intelligence. I can't help but think there is a resentful connection between those two items.

A loutish, self-satisfied lawyer who strives with the yearning of a wounded god to punish before the sight of true believers their enemies for the sin of expressing views he doesn't approve of: could there be a finer incarnation of the history of Mormon theology? Richard Bushman blurbed about another LDS theologian, Adam Miller, that he "is the most original and provocative Latter-day Saint theologian practicing today." That is only half-right. He may be original, but for provocation no Latter-day Saint theologian today can match the sparsely punctuated wit of Mr. Blake Ostler.

PS I should be greatly appreciative if anyone can answer my question I asked above in the thread about Dr. Peterson's six published articles referenced at Faith-Promoting Rumor.
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
_Kishkumen
_Emeritus
Posts: 21373
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:00 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Kishkumen »

A loutish, self-satisfied lawyer who strives with the yearning of a wounded god to punish before the sight of true believers their enemies for the sin of expressing views he doesn't approve of: could there be a finer incarnation of the history of Mormon theology? Richard Bushman blurbed about another LDS theologian, Adam Miller, that he "is the most original and provocative Latter-day Saint theologian practicing today." That is only half-right. He may be original, but for provocation no Latter-day Saint theologian today can match the sparsely punctuated wit of Mr. Blake Ostler.

I would like to be able to say that loutish and self-satisfied have nothing to do with Mormon theology because those words had nothing to do with my ideals as a young LDS person. But what am I to conclude from the examples of Elder McConkie, the Mopologists, and so many others?
"Petition wasn’t meant to start a witch hunt as I’ve said 6000 times." ~ Hanna Seariac, LDS apologist
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Gadianton »

Speaking of the Oxford Journal of Religion, how many subscribers to that journal have converted to Mormonism, thanks to Ostler's Mormon philosophizing?

That's what I thought.

How many now think Mormon theology is respectable?

That's what I thought.

How many believe what they've read actually has anything to do with Mormonism?

Yet again, that is what I thought.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: Blake Ostler Erupts with Rage on Faith-Promoting Rumor

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Vogel responds at Faith-Promoting Rumor to Lindsay's essay,

See here.

Dan Vogel @ Faith-Promoting Rumor wrote:Blake Ostler, for you to praise Lindsay’s essay and his discussion of Hebrew in GAEL tells me you don’t know what you are talking about because Lindsay certainly doesn’t. Gee tried to date the GAEL to early 1836 by arguing that the GAEL shows knowledge of Seixas’ transliteration system, but so far no one can show it. Now, Lindsay want to date it to late November 1835 when Cowdery arrived with the Hebrew books. The problem is that the knowledge of Hebrew goes little beyond the Hebrew Alphabet. Besides, W. W. Phelps was involved and could have helped.

Some try to argue that the presence of Hebrew proves WWP wrote the GAEL, but those who date it to 1836 must allow for Joseph Smith’s authorship. Can’t have it both ways.

WWP probably helped write the entries in the History of the Church in 1843 that date the Alphabets and at least the beginning of the bound GAEL to July 1835. The part of the GAEL (the end) that describes the Egyptian astronomy coincides with Joseph Smith’s journal entry for 1 Oct. 1835. These entries also have WWP assigning authorship of the GAEL to Smith. Gee doesn’t quote these passages, but he does try to argue that the entire Book of Abraham was translated in July 1835 without giving a reference, but the only source to mention translating some of the characters is the HC.

Lindsay went on and on about the Hebrew influence on the GAEL, even arguing that the lines for the five degrees and dots (Iota) were influenced by Hebrew vowel signs. However, the lines probably came from the papyri and the dots were not meant to be dots on the papyri but Joseph Smith and Co. interpreted the flaking of the ink as dots.

The old Nibley apologetic that the GAEL was written by Joseph Smith’s scribes in an effort to reverse engineer Joseph Smith translation of Abraham is dead. It was born out of ignorance of the actual documents and is maintained by Gee and Muhlestein, neither of whom know what they are doing when it comes to the English documents.

The Lindsay essay is a complete mess from beginning to end. His explanation for the two text of Abraham 1:4-2:6 being written simultaneously at Joseph Smith’s dictation, that Parrish was copying from a complete text of Abraham while reading the same out loud so that F. G. Williams could make a copy as well, is complete nonsense. In his explanation of how we get several in-line corrections in both manuscripts shows that he doesn’t know what a visual mistake is (dittography or haplography). Lindsay is no better than Gee and Muhlestein for inventing the worst kind of apologetic.
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
Post Reply