Another Racially Insensitive MLK Day Weekend at "SeN"

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_Doctor Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 8025
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:44 pm

Another Racially Insensitive MLK Day Weekend at "SeN"

Post by _Doctor Scratch »

Readers of Dr. Peterson's blog, "Sic et Non," may have noticed, as of late, an ongoing dispute between Louis Midgley and the commenter known here as "Dr. LOD," and on "SeN" as "Dr. VelhoBurrinho." The substance of the argument comes down to a couple of things: one, that Dr. LOD accused Midgley of "racism" on account of Midgley's insensitive "cultural appropriation" (does Midgley even know what that means?) of LDS Maori culture. Here's a very small sample of Midgley's rancorous take on the matter:

Midgley wrote:Dr. VelhoBurrinho seems to have bought hook, line and sinker the kind of thing that Simon Southerton, a certain Australian former Latter-day Saint, who is is a plant geneticist, argues. And hence, it seems, that the "Little Old Donkey" is no longer believes that there were Lehites, and hence that the Book of Mormon is fiction fashioned by Joseph Smith. This seems to explain why he posts as Dr. LOD (Little Old Donkey) on that violently hate filled fake Dr. Shades board. To see clearly what this entails, all one has to do is to notice the up and down voting from the fake Doctors and Professors that slither in from that sewer.

This explains why Dr. VelhoBurrinho is hostile to both Professor Peterson and me. And it may help explain his absurd claim that I have a a latent racial bigotry toward Maori Latter-day Saints.

The previous tiny little difference of opinion that Professor Peterson and I had with "Little Old Donkey" over whether the traces of the DNA of the three migrations mentioned in the Book of Mormon now be present in all native Americans rests on ignorance of the reasons this simply has to be so.

But sic et non is not the place to try to sort these issues with the Little Old Donkey. Those who have tried to follow his absurd claim that what is commonly know as the Maori Latter-day Saint historical narrative is not something that I fashioned as a missionary in New Zealand in 1950, which I am not trying to project on the Maori Saints.

And for the Little Old Donkey to claim, as he does, that Dan and I are trying to deal with the rubbish being peddled by Rodney Meldrum about where the events described in the Book of Mormon took place is rubbish.


In another post, quoted here, Midgley seems to attach Dr. LOD on the basis of his ethnic ancestry:

Midgley wrote:Sam, the "highly educated native American--the infamous Dr. VelhoBurrinho (or Little Old Donkey) if he notices your remark, will accuse you of merely co-oping the story of those people who have had their culture trashed by you as you project your opinions on them in an effort to have trophy Polynesian members to shore up your own stupid faith.


And Dr. LOD punches back:

Dr. LOD wrote:Professor Midgley, by the tone of your post it is very clear you are picking out my race and heritage. That sir is racism.

I have only criticized or challenged your opinions or beliefs that you have shared here. I never did a personal attack against your appearance, race, national origin, sexuality, or age.

About your religion which we do share, the closest I would have come to anything was to challenge your loose use of "Saints" when you try to justify what really is bad behavior on your part in "defending" the church.


Suffice it to say that issues of race are rather tense at the moment over on "Sic et Non"--at least, to anyone who is paying attention. Unless, perhaps, you are the blog's chief author, owner, and proprietor, that is. Just get a load of his latest post, entitled, "A couple of songs from my first residence in the Middle East." Now, DCP has taken heat in the past for his, uh, "checkered" past as an insensitive youth traveling in the Middle East. While he attempts to frame this entry through the lens of "folk music," it doesn't really do much to help out the basic odiousness of the post. This is the set up:

Peterson wrote:My first stay in the Middle East was six months with a BYU study abroad group in Israel. For roughly the first half of that 1978 program — just eleven years after Israel had seized control of East Jerusalem (and the West Bank and the Sinai and the Golan Heights) during the Six-Day War of 1967 — we were housed (and had our classes) in the Vienna Hotel, a Palestinian establishment in an Arab neighborhood called Shaykh Jarrah. (The building has long since been demolished.)


Huh. Well, at least the conflict was "eleven years" in the past, which sort of makes you wonder why he's using those political details to set the stage. But he soon reveals the basic "western" attitudes that he and his young comrades had towards the Middle East and its people:

SeN wrote:The Vienna Hotel wasn’t exactly the Ritz Carlton. Here’s a song that my roommate and I (mostly my roommate, if I recall correctly) made up in honor of that august place of lodging:

V is for the vermin in the bathtub.

I is for the instant milk we drink.

E is for the broken elevator.

N is for that nasty sewer stink.

N is for the nutrients we’re lacking.

A’s for Abu Fu’ad slinging slop.

Put them all together, it’s “Vienna.”

For refugee camps, it’s the top!


Since we aren't given any more details (such as whether any of this is even remotely true), you have little choice but to see it as a sort of "first world" arrogance: here are these spoiled white American kids, flipping the bird at the "poor, impoverished 'Other'". I have to admit, the line that bothers me the most is this: "A's for Abu Fu'ad singling slop." Is this ignorance? I.e., DCP and his friend just didn't understand the food? Did it look "weird" to them? Like: "Ewww! Those gross Japanese people eat raw fish!!!" That kind of thing--racism born out of ignorance? Or, was the food just not "up to snuff" according to the sophisticated palates of these budding young "Men from Davos"?

But the story gets even better (or worse, I guess?):

DCP wrote:Somewhere near the midway point of our program, we spent a couple of weeks up north in the Galilee, first at the collective farm Kibbutz Deganya Alef or Deganya A (דְּגַנְיָה א’). The permanent settlement was established in 1910, making it the earliest socialist Zionist farming commune in Israel. It’s sometimes called “the mother of all kibbutzim.”

We were essentially agricultural workers, spending much of our time pruning banana trees. (In order to escape the banana-tree pruning detail, I volunteered to spend most of one night loading geese onto trucks. They bite. I went back to pruning banana trees. They don’t bite.)

But that’s a story for another time. Anyway, here’s a little piece that my roomate and I made up, to be sung to the tune of “Go Down, Moses.” I would sing it, with choral response, while we were working in the fields. Galbraith, of course, refers to the director of the BYU Jerusalem Program at the time, David Galbraith (later a friend and BYU faculty colleague). Izzy (presumably short for Israel) was one of the leaders of Kibbutz Deganya Alef, and the person most responsible for our group’s being there:


When BYU was in Israel land

(Let my people go!)

They worked so hard they could not stand.

(Let my people go!)

Go down, Galbraith! Go down Deganya way!

Tell old Izzy, “Let my people go!”


Wait, wait, wait.... DCP says he would "sing it, with choral response" while he was working in the fields?? So, basically, he was amusing himself by imagining that he was a black American slave, doing agricultural labor out "in the fields"? Because it really is impossible to separate that song from the history of American slavery. See here, for example, for your friendly Wikipedia listing for the song. (The entry notes that Harriet Tubman "used "Go Down Moses" as one of two code songs fugitive slaves used to communicate when fleeing Maryland.") And, of course, the song was popularized by the great African American singer, Paul Robeson.

Look: there is a part of me that wants to dismiss this sort of thing as mere "infelicities of youth." But if DCP was acting like a spoiled, naïve and racially insensitive twerp as a youth, then why is he bringing it up now? Especially considering the blows being exchanged by Midgley and Dr. LOD? I guess DCP thinks this sort of stuff is still "good for a laugh"?

In any case, it would be nice to get some clarification from him on what this was meant to accomplish. Quite embarrassing, if you ask me.
Last edited by Guest on Mon Jan 20, 2020 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
"[I]f, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
_moksha
_Emeritus
Posts: 22508
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:42 pm

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _moksha »

... on that violently hate-filled fake Dr. Shades board.

Dr. Midgley has started to insult me in Maori at SeN. Not sure he should be calling anyone or anything hate-filled without risking a cosmic irony reaction.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Gadianton »

Doctor Scratch wrote:then why is he bringing it up now? Especially considering the blows being exchanged by Midgley and Dr. LOD? I guess DCP thinks this sort of stuff is still "good for a laugh"?


Because it's the kind of thing that lends credibility on the blog? It will be especially popular with the right-wing culture of the day. And as noted, I'm keeping an eye on Interpreter, as it appears to have taken a strange turn into Alt Right territory.

But don't you remember many years later, after he'd made a name for himself for doing something -- what was it exactly? He went alone back to the Middle East adorned in a purple robe, so to speak, and was treated to one of the finest meals of his life. I'm assuming there was no song made about those who suffered for the opulence enjoyed at that time.

The psychology here is fueled by feelings of inferiority, or embarrassment about the great many of silly things that these grown-ups desperately cling to. That makes a person look for "easy targets" (usually those less privileged) to validate ones self against.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Fence Sitter
_Emeritus
Posts: 8862
Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2010 3:49 pm

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Fence Sitter »

Dr.Midgley wrote:This seems to explain why he posts as Dr. LOD (Little Old Donkey) on that violently hate filled fake Dr. Shades board. To see clearly what this entails, all one has to do is to notice the up and down voting from the fake Doctors and Professors that slither in from that sewer.


I am surprised no one noticed this erroneous remark from Dr. Midgley.

We don't have up and down voting for anyone to notice. Perhaps Dr. Midgley is confusing us with MAD?
"Any over-ritualized religion since the dawn of time can make its priests say yes, we know, it is rotten, and hard luck, but just do as we say, keep at the ritual, stick it out, give us your money and you'll end up with the angels in heaven for evermore."
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Gadianton »

Isn't he talking about any up or down vote that he doesn't approve of on Sic Et Non? If somebody down-votes something he said, there is no other explanation than a "fake doctor" from this board -- seething with hatred for the Church of Jesus Christ (that they know is true) -- took the trouble to go over there and cast that vote.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Dr Moore
_Emeritus
Posts: 849
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 5:19 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Dr Moore »

I had to chuckle at the way Philip Jenkins proposed that if, by “naïve,” Bill Hamblin meant to say “ competent, rigorous, professional historian.”

In a similar spirit, I suggest that by “hate filled,” Dr. Midgley means to say “honest, open minded, and truth seeking.”
_Dr Exiled
_Emeritus
Posts: 3616
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 3:48 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Dr Exiled »

Perhaps some Bill O'Reilly acolytes made a sizable donation and he is paying homage to their attitudes? Maybe 'merica first, only the puritans' ancestors could have brought forth the fake restoration, attitude is coming back in a big way? Maybe he and Meldrum will be making up soon with a "buss" eh Dr. Midgley?
"Religion is about providing human community in the guise of solving problems that don’t exist or failing to solve problems that do and seeking to reconcile these contradictions and conceal the failures in bogus explanations otherwise known as theology." - Kishkumen 
_Dr LOD
_Emeritus
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Aug 22, 2019 6:24 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Dr LOD »

Professor Midgley seems to have taken me pointing out a component of his relationship to the Maori and their culture that developed on his mission quite personal. I feel my original critique was actually quite gentle considering to what else he was saying in his Interpreter article in question.

This isn't the first time I have seen this type of reaction. It is an exhibit of a certain type of fragility of ones identity.

I have no doubt that Professor Midgley genuinely does care and love these people and their culture. But there is an inherent selfishness in this relationship, he was also appropriating their bodies, culture and beliefs, as a faith promoting experience for his own beliefs. This is where his latent racism sits.

The church has also showed this pattern from is founding to today. Current teachings in the chapels about Native Americans has not changed one bit in the last fourty years. In those chapels my family and I have seen varying degrees of this from a misplaced love and benevolence to outright racism build upon the concept of white nationalism. It is all wrong.

It is somewhat ironic that the, blood from these people, their DNA is now a "voice from the dust" setting the record straight and changing the narrative.
Last edited by Guest on Sat Jan 18, 2020 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
_Shulem
_Emeritus
Posts: 12072
Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:48 am

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Shulem »

Hateful Midgley wrote:This seems to explain why he posts as Dr. LOD (Little Old Donkey) on that violently hate filled fake Dr. Shades board. To see clearly what this entails, all one has to do is to notice the up and down voting from the fake Doctors and Professors that slither in from that sewer.


:evil:

Now I am pissed (no pun intended)!

:mad:

I'm tired of Peterson and his ilk referring to us as the "sewer" which is the place where crap floats about in diseased water.

Stop calling us the sewer you bastards!

Image
_Symmachus
_Emeritus
Posts: 1520
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: DCP Tries on "Blackface" at 'Sic et Non'

Post by _Symmachus »

Shulem wrote:
Hateful Midgley wrote:This seems to explain why he posts as Dr. LOD (Little Old Donkey) on that violently hate filled fake Dr. Shades board. To see clearly what this entails, all one has to do is to notice the up and down voting from the fake Doctors and Professors that slither in from that sewer.

:evil:

Now I am pissed (no pun intended)!

:mad:

I'm tired of Peterson and his ilk referring to us as the "sewer" which is the place where crap floats about in diseased water.

Stop calling us the sewer you bastards!

Own it with pride, Shulem. Sewers are a mark of civilization the sanitary functions of which are ultimately salutary.

P.S. I chuckled when I saw that Peterson added vowels to the Hebrew, like it’s a biblical text or poetry—well, I guess children’s books also use vowelling.

So erudite!
"As to any slivers of light or any particles of darkness of the past, we forget about them."

—B. Redd McConkie
Post Reply