Feminism and the LDS church

[_Lemmie]

From the NonProfit Quarterly, excerpts from an article on feminism and the lds church:

”Latter-day Saints Take a Stand on Feminism…and It Isn’t Pretty”

Carole Levine
January 25, 2020; Daily Utah Chronicle

It takes only four paragraphs for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS, popularly known as Mormons) to explain its “updated” stance on feminism.

Their position, while allowing just a wee bit of wiggle room for women to express themselves as individuals, used its opening statement to reiterate its belief that “men and women fulfill their highest purpose together as husband and wife” and referenced a 1995 statement, The Family: A Proclamation to the World.

The second paragraph of this statement spells out just what forms of feminism the Latter-day Saints support, including efforts to ensure basic human rights and basic fairness for women, as well as efforts to encourage women to obtain an education, develop their talents, and serve humankind in any field they choose. These sound much like what would be appropriate for any person, not specifically women…unless, perhaps, women were being denied these rights within the LDS church community. But it isn’t until the last two paragraphs that the church reiterates the largely unchanged core of its stance.

While the statement is clear in declaring that men and women are equal, but with “distinct roles in the family,” it is equally clear in its aversion to “extreme ideals” of feminism that distract “from (or even work against) the ideals of marriage and family.”

This is a major principle in LDS teaching. Women are seen by the all-male leaders of the church to be critical in a domestic role and as teachers within the church structure. They serve alongside men as missionaries. But they have no role in policymaking, nor are they ordained as priests within the church.

Writing for the Daily Utah Chronicle, Natalie Colby interviewed Brigham Young college freshman and LDS church member Gwen Christopherson about women in the church.

....Christopherson points to the priesthood as the place where the power and authority of the church and of God rests.

“This authority is not based on spirituality, good works, faith, or even adherence to the commandments in many cases. It is based solely on gender,” she says. “Keep in mind that because women aren’t allowed to have priesthood authority, it is only men who are making church policy changes, and so it seems to be a hopeless case.” She points out that women are given the same amount of credibility as children as witnesses in the church: “If that doesn’t prove how sexist the Church is, then I don’t know what does.”

This situation reminds us a bit of the Boy Scouts of America, which approached the issue of gay scouts and leaders so incrementally that they finally fell off the edge of the world—which, for them, is still flat. —Carole Levine

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/latter-d ... nt-pretty/

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

What are the extreme ideals of feminism they, the Mormons, are alluding to? Like, is this particular feminist ideal what they’re warning against?



Is it SSM the linked article talks about? Is there a concise and comprehensive list we can look at the Church provides?

- Doc

[_honorentheos]

Hey Cam, the article notes what the Church has articulated as extreme feminism. That being, anything that varies from the ingrained LDS view women are "elevated" when they are filling nurturing roles like being mothers who prioritize family. It's a fact of LDS culture we were raised in that we inherently assume men lead and women comfort. Men are the authorities and can assume said authority where a woman in a role as expert or professional can seem out of place, instinctively. Maybe I can only speak for myself here, but I do find myself having to actively question and work against subconscious reactions and assumed roles derived from spending childhood and early adulthood in a culture where men are considered qualified for leadership because of birthright. The church was still teaching that fathers are the final decision makers in a family when I was a deacon at least. And the joke by the adults always being we knew that mothers held power over their husbands because...that's a healthy relationship dynamic right there.

Anyway, the article points out that the church wouldn't know the difference between the woman in your example and a woman who became a leading expert in a field that wasn't home economics. When we can't, either, we are showing we aren't as removed from our LDS upbringing as we might like to think.

[_moksha]

https://dailyutahchronicle.com/2020/01/25/lds-church-statement-feminism/

The original article is safe for non-LDS work environments.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

Hey Cam, the article notes what the Church has articulated as extreme feminism. That being, anything that varies from the ingrained LDS view women are "elevated" when they are filling nurturing roles like being mothers who prioritize family.

I think I'm trying to pinpoint what, exactly, is the Church's views on extreme feminism. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's it was repeatedly drummed home that women who pursue higher education and careers and 'immodest' dress were deceived by feminism.

Nowadays I see female missionaries being allowed to wear pants, the Church kinda shrugs at women in higher education, and, well, I'm not sure about careers. Are those still considered a form of extreme feminism, or is the Church just worried about man-hating lesbians posting on Twitter? I can't really tell where the Church is at on the issue of feminism because it's shifty and they use vague talking points.

- Doc

[_honorentheos]

What?! The Mormon Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is shifty, inconsistent and ambiguous about something where it also claims to have a strong, moral belief? Say it ain't so!

I hear you in that sense. I do think we all know they mean more than the almost parody of feminism that is in the Twitter example, and being decentralized I'm sure two people attending two different wards would be receiving two very different messages every week at church. But the fact still is, they considered letting a woman pray in conference to be progress within the last decade so...

[_honorentheos]

Here's the statement verbatim from the Church website: First, some basics: We are children of Heavenly Parents. Gender is an important part of who we are—both before, during, and after this life. Men and women are equal—one is not superior to the other. They are also different, with different roles within a family. Both men and women fulfill their highest purpose together as husband and wife, not separately. (See “The Family: A Proclamation to the World,” Ensign or Liahona, May 2017, 145, familyproclamation.ChurchofJesusChrist.org).

Now, feminism can mean different things to different people. Sometimes it refers to efforts to ensure basic human rights and basic fairness for women, as well as efforts to encourage women to obtain an education, develop their talents, and serve humankind in any field they choose. Latter-day Saints support these things.

However, sometimes certain philosophies and social movements bearing the feminism label advocate extreme ideas that are not in harmony with the teachings of the gospel. These can lead people to become distracted from (or even work against) the ideals of marriage and family. Latter-day Saints frown upon such things.

By that same token, we also frown upon extremes such as male chauvinism, sexism, machismo, or any other cultural influence that would cause men to think and act in ways that are not in harmony with gospel teachings of respect, love, modesty, chastity, equality, and family responsibilities.

[_Doctor CamNC4Me]

I think the Church is vaguebooking again, and letting members fill in the blanks as to what they think 'extreme feminism' means. Typical.

- Doc

[_I have a question]

By that same token, we also frown upon extremes such as male chauvinism, sexism, machismo, or any other cultural influence that would cause men to think and act in ways that are not in harmony with gospel teachings of respect, love, modesty, chastity, equality, and family responsibilities.

That's obviously dishonest. The Church doesn't frown upon male chauvinism and sexism, the power and authority structure of the Church is inherently and systemically male chauvinistic and sexist. Just take a look at the number of male speakers versus female speakers at General Conferences for the last 100 years - is it an equal number of men and women? Of course not. It's unequal in favour of men. Because the Church believes the members need to hear talks from men far more than they should hear from women.

If the Church leaders (all men) believed that statement, last October there'd have been an equal number of male and female speakers at General Conference. That's undeniable male chauvinism and sexism just in that one current example.

You'll have noticed recently that during devotionals and the like, the General Authority will have his wife stood next to him and there'll take it in turns to speak. He will give an important talk, then she will give a primary child level anecdote. It's designed to make the unsuspecting observer and the wilfully ignorant member, the impression that men and women are equal in the Church. We are however, a very very very long way away from gender equality in the Church, as the General Conference example shows.

[_Physics Guy]

Sometimes [feminism] refers to efforts to ... encourage women to ... serve humankind in any field they choose. Latter-day Saints support these things.

Would church leadership be a field that women can choose, then?