The Great Apostasy vs LDS Succession

[_fetchface]

Recently, I heard that should everyone in the Q15 die of COVID-19 all at once, the Q70 presidency would have the authority to ordain an apostle and kick-start the reconstitution of the Q15. Does anybody know if this is true? Even better, if it is true, is it written down anywhere?

When I heard this, I thought it was absolutely nuts, not because there is anything wrong with the church having a plan to keep things going in extreme circumstances, but because it completely undermines the entire argument of the Great Apostasy. If the LDS church can reconstitute the Q15 if all are killed before more can be ordained, then the argument that there ever was a Great Apostasy melts away completely. The Roman Catholic Church is the true church, game over for the LDS church.

I mean, the idea that Jesus established the one true church in his lifetime only for it to immediately fail already seems nearly impossible to believe (I mean, why establish a church that will only last a few years, especially if you are a god who sees the future?). This makes it make even less sense.

So was this just a baseless rumor that I heard? Anyone know if there is a real plan to address all of the Q15 dying at the same time in the LDS church?

[_Shulem]

As a body, the seventy in the church are considered to be equal in priesthood authority with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. This presumably means that if the apostles were killed or incapacitated, the seventy could take over the function of the apostles.

Seventy (LDS Church)

[_fetchface]

As a body, the seventy in the church are considered to be equal in priesthood authority with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. This presumably means that if the apostles were killed or incapacitated, the seventy could take over the function of the apostles.

Seventy (LDS Church)

Jesus Christ, I can't believe I ever fell for a belief system with so many plot holes!

Presumably, the primitive church could have done the same goddamn thing when the original apostles died.

We can bury the idea of the Great Apostasy folks. That was the final nail in the coffin. This theology is just too stupid to believe.

[_Shulem]

We are taught to believe that white bearded Elohim sat upon his throne and watched his Son's original church get completely wiped out. By the year 200 AD it was all over and no more prophets would be called to save the world. No more divine revelation. No more dreams. No more miracles. It's all over. By the year 700 AD, Elohim just sat on his throne and watch the world spin around every 24 hours and didn't do anything but watch the world go by day after day while his children in which he claims to love, suffer and die from famine, war, and disease. In the year 1200 AD nothing much had changed. Still the church was long gone. No prophets, no true church, no nothing from the Holy Spook on high -- Boo!



But then in 1835 Joseph Smith came along and translated the hieroglyphs on Facsimile No. 3 claiming there is an Egyptian king's name above the character he claimed was the king of Egypt.

Herein is proof that Mormonism is a scam -- a lie, a fabrication, an abomination. Isn't that right, Dan Peterson?

[_lemuel]

D&C 107:23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.

24 And they form a quorum, equal in authority and power to the three presidents previously mentioned.

25 The Seventy are also called to preach the gospel, and to be especial witnesses unto the Gentiles and in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.

26 And they form a quorum, equal in authority to that of the Twelve special witnesses or Apostles just named.

36 The standing high councils, at the stakes of Zion, form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the quorum of the presidency, or to the traveling high council.

37 The high council in Zion form a quorum equal in authority in the affairs of the church, in all their decisions, to the councils of the Twelve at the stakes of Zion.

The fun part is that FP = Q12 = Q70 = the High Councils in authority, which goes against what the leaders teach.

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/2017/07/radio-free-mormon-014-apostolic-coup-d-etat/

[_huckelberry]

I have long thought that the idea of apostasy is a weak link in LDS thinking. I am not sure that there is one settled explanation of this supposed event. I have heard the idea that apostles were not replaced but had to be. That seems a very weak proposal. . I have heard other things suggested, importing philosophy, corruption of leadership. Perhaps LDS should stick with God wanted it this way. The LDS idea is generally a repeat of general protestant ideas of Catholic loss of authority. There is an irony there. Luther thought that a significant problem in Rome was the idea of priesthood authority which is not based upon scripture but was happy to become oppressively controlling.

Luther and Joseph Smith are not in much agreement on these things.

[_Dr. Shades]

"Apostasy" = When your church changes.
"Continuing Revelation" = When my church changes.

[_moksha]

As a body, the seventy in the church are considered to be equal in priesthood authority with the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. This presumably means that if the apostles were killed or incapacitated, the seventy could take over the function of the apostles.

Seventy (LDS Church)

If equal, do they also get to call themselves "Prophets, Seers, and Revelators"?

[_I have a question]

"Apostasy" = When your church changes.
"Continuing Revelation" = When my church changes.

Apostasy - when you change what you believe
Continuing Revelation - when we change what we believe

[Guest]

The newsroom and Kirton, McConkie denied the request by the 70 to also be called prophets, seers, and revelators. They think that it's best that only the Q15 make stuff up and call it revelation or prophecy. The church can handle only so many scheduling changes at once.