American History and The Restoration are one and the same

[_Dantana]

[quote="Doctor CamNC4Me" post_id=1224637 time=1589554345 user_id=3779]
That... was actually a pretty cool story.

- Doc
[/quote]
I agree, although I do suspect there may be a little Dunn-hausen by proxy going on here. I guess it's possible there could have been an unnoticed line dragging behind the ship, but I doubt the ships crew would be that derelict to let a halyard drag, as that is kind of an important line.

[_moksha]

Dunn-hausen by proxy

Yes, from the DSM- Utah Version. This is a classic diagnosis that fits in with Faith Promoting Syndrome.

[_Dr Exiled]

More of the same worshipping the pilgrims and puritans. I wonder if disaffection with america causes people to leave the church outside the USA?

Interesting about the church worshiping pilgrims and puritans; I hadn't made that connection before. Anyway, I started doing genealogy when I was in the church and had set it aside for a couple three decades. Recently took it up again with online resources and lo and behold I have Mayflower ancestors and many, many puritans. Some of those lines were ancestors to my Nauvoo Mormon ancestors. I read a little about puritanism and found all sorts of parallels to Mormonism. I have a theory that folks with Puritanism in their past generations were the sort of people attracted to Mormonism, generally speaking. That would be a good topic for a scientific study, in my opinion.

It seemed like I heard references to the pilgrims and puritans being God's chosen as precursors for the restoration a lot growing up. My guess is besides Joseph Smith being a descendant, many of the GA's were also, including the ones in my home ward. They certainly were great, especially during the Salem witch trials and when they were spreading west killing all the native americans as they went, a la old testament god.

[_Chap]

Please excuse me for not going out there to do all the leg-work of checking research and giving citations.

But I think that any discussions about people being descended from early colonists needs to be conducted in the knowledge of the probability that, given a relatively small and early immigrant group that (unlike some other 'plantations') survives for several centuries, a quite large number of the later population will have one at least of those colonists somewhere amongst their ancestors, even if immigration continues. That is simply because the further back we go, the more ancestors we are likely to have had. But the population from which those ancestors must have been drawn gets smaller as we go back in time, so ...

Here is an article at a popular level:

Are you descended from royalty? Six things to consider

And a somewhat more substantial article in the Atlantic, referred to in the former piece:

The Royal We: The mathematical study of genealogy indicates that everyone in the world is descended from Nefertiti and Confucius, and everyone of European ancestry is descended from Muhammad and Charlemagne

[_DarkHelmet]

This is simply an exercise in drawing targets around fallen arrows. I doubt native Americans will view the Pilgrims arrival as a blessing to their history.

Yes. It reminds me of an old Calvin and Hobbs cartoon where Calvin explains to Hobbs all the amazing coincidences that needed to occur in order for him to be born and that makes him the most important person in the world.

[_Dantana]

Moksha wrote, "Yes, from the DSM- Utah Version. This is a classic diagnosis that fits in with Faith Promoting Syndrome."

Dunn-hausen by proxy was a feeble attempt at a Mokshism. Need to remember though, this line from Lee Marvin's 'Monty Walsh' -"Nobody gets to be a penguin forever."

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Interesting about the church worshiping pilgrims and puritans; I hadn't made that connection before. Anyway, I started doing genealogy when I was in the church and had set it aside for a couple three decades. Recently took it up again with online resources and lo and behold I have Mayflower ancestors and many, many puritans. Some of those lines were ancestors to my Nauvoo Mormon ancestors. I read a little about puritanism and found all sorts of parallels to Mormonism. I have a theory that folks with Puritanism in their past generations were the sort of people attracted to Mormonism, generally speaking. That would be a good topic for a scientific study, in my opinion.

It seemed like I heard references to the pilgrims and puritans being God's chosen as precursors for the restoration a lot growing up. My guess is besides Joseph Smith being a descendant, many of the GA's were also, including the ones in my home ward. They certainly were great, especially during the Salem witch trials and when they were spreading west killing all the native americans as they went, a la old testament god.

They were pretty awful to the Quakers too. Some puritans tried to sell my teenage many times great-grandmother and her brother to the Barbados, but fortunately the ship captain refused to take them. I find it all fascinating from a historical standpoint, but not something to brag about. Apparently, though, I have an aunt who married Abraham Lincoln's uncle, so there's that.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

Please excuse me for not going out there to do all the leg-work of checking research and giving citations.

But I think that any discussions about people being descended from early colonists needs to be conducted in the knowledge of the probability that, given a relatively small and early immigrant group that (unlike some other 'plantations') survives for several centuries, a quite large number of the later population will have one at least of those colonists somewhere amongst their ancestors, even if immigration continues. That is simply because the further back we go, the more ancestors we are likely to have had. But the population from which those ancestors must have been drawn gets smaller as we go back in time, so ...

Here is an article at a popular level:

Are you descended from royalty? Six things to consider

And a somewhat more substantial article in the Atlantic, referred to in the former piece:

The Royal We: The mathematical study of genealogy indicates that everyone in the world is descended from Nefertiti and Confucius, and everyone of European ancestry is descended from Muhammad and Charlemagne

True, of course, and I realize that my little sample of Mormon-Puritan connections aren't enough to prove anything, but it's a fun past-time for my dotage.

[_Lucretia MacEvil]

I wonder if Timothy Ballard, the author of the book in question, is a descendant of Joseph Ballard and Elizabeth Phelps (who happen to be my 8th great-grandparents). A resident of Andover, Mass, Joseph Ballard was distressed when his wife fell terminally ill. Seeking help for his wife, he thought it would be a good idea to consult with several teenage girls from the neighboring Salem Village who were already identifying witches there. After visiting Elizabeth, the girls claimed that several people in Andover had bewitched her. Constable John Ballard (brother of Joseph) got a warrant for their arrests. Over the next three months more than forty Andover citizens, mostly women and their children, were jailed as suspected witches (even more than in Salem itself). So there you have Andover's first witch accuser and first witch prosecutor.