New Mormon Stories/RFM interview with Robert Ritner

[_sunstoned]

Listening to this podcast is a must. Ritner destroys the apologists again and he confirms why outside experts don't usually bother with Mormon claims - the silliness and ridiculousness of the claims are so obvious that it isn't worth the time. (Gee, Muhlstein, Carmack, Skousen, etc., please stand down before you embarrass yourselves further). I can't wait for the next installments.

What these apologist do is such a waist of time and effort. And money. someone is paying their salaries. They might as well be arguing for flat earth theory. Mormon scholarly apologetics are such an embarrassment and a career killer.

[_moksha]

Shulem, what's wrong with apologists denying the obvious if it helps the Church to retain tithe payers?

[_Shulem]

Shulem, what's wrong with apologists denying the obvious if it helps the Church to retain tithe payers?

As a former Book of Abraham apologist, I encourage others including myself to stay in the church and to continue paying tithing. I will never get to see my share of donations that's sitting in the Ensign Peak fund. I should have kept the money. Being an apologist was expensive.

[_Shulem]

Non-LDS Egyptologists Von Bissing, Woodward, and Hughes all agreed that the Anubis-priest in Fac 1:3 could have a knife in hand

You're so damned dumb, Robert. Let me tell you what Non-LDS Egyptologists Von Bissing, Woodward, and Hughes would agree to:

1. There is no king's name given in the characters above the head of Isis in Facsimile No. 3. Joseph Smith was wrong.
2. Osiris is sitting upon his HEAVENLY throne, not Asiatic vile Abraham as Joseph Smith imagined.
3. The name Shulem is not written in the hieroglyphic writing of Facsimile No. 3. It's not the name of any Egyptian prince.
4. Anubis is a god, not a slave and he deserves to be depicted with his full face -- to include a snout.

YOU, Robert, are a piece of crap. I'd love to debate you and kick your sorry lying ass.



You think you know so much. You're actually stupid -- retarredd Mormon ass! You hide over there at MAD and act like you know so much and your so tough. You're pussy! A scared little pussy and I would love to kick your ass.

Come to Mormon Discussions so I can beat you up!

And I'm an anti-Mormon!

[_Dr Moore]

Professionally, the career of John Gee must have been one depressing year after another.

Think about the believing young man curious about the Book of Abraham, curious about the Egyptology, eager to serve the church by studying out the mysteries between them. He went all the way to PhD and took up a career in the academy to this end. He seems like a smart and politically savvy guy: probably could have gone far in a non-apologetic profession.

I bet he honestly believed his Egyptology would lead to “proof” discoveries galore. I bet he dreamed of the day his work would unite people — members, leaders and scholars alike, both inside and outside the church, with beautifully unassailable connections. The implications would be massive: massively validating and massively faith supporting.

I mean think about this: if not for the Book of Abraham, there is no John Gee, Professor of Egyptology. Maybe he would have studied Hebrew or Philolgy or Mayan culture or frontier history, but there would have been no point in studying Egyptology. He went that route on purpose and his purpose is clear.

Instead, time has only shown Egyptian to be as worthless a field for evaluating Smith’s Egyptian translation project as the papyri have been as window to Abraham. Even worse, all of the active, relevant scholarship on the Book of Abraham is through the Hebrew now, no Egyptology required. It’s like Gee’s own commitment to belief led him down the one path that has become irrelevant for anything except to prove that Joseph made it all up. How utterly depressing.

All of Gee’s apologetics have been shot to smithereens, so he’s playing at social scientist now (tsk tsk, Mister Stay in your Lane) and writing mean book reviews.

Ritner doesn’t say it explicitly, but he would be justified in accusing Gee of abusing his degree to hoodwink church leaders too, not just members. If Gee would be honest about the Egyptology, the church might have entirely decanonized the Book of Abraham by now. And that would probably be a good thing.

By the way, Joseph must be laughing in his grave because check and mate, Michael Chandler. Smith’s creative imagination turned that investment of a few thousand dollars for grave garbage into billions.

Smith knew that the value of any fine art is not the object itself, but the story people will believe about it. Mormons pay millions in tithing to a church that still claims an Abrahamic lineage for the Book of Abraham scrolls for the same reason an authentic Honus Wagner card sells for millions.

Only difference is professional graders will certify the Honus Wagner.

[_Shulem]

the priesthood is not being taught in any of the facsimile explanations

"Representing also the grand Key-words of the Holy Priesthood, as revealed to Adam in the Garden of Eden, as also to Seth, Noah, Melchizedek, Abraham, and all to whom the Priesthood was revealed"

"revealing through the heavens the grand Key-words of the Priesthood"

Nothing is being revealed. Nothing is being taught. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Robert F Smith must have a hole in his head wherein his brains spilled out. What a quack!

I just changed my mind. I DO NOT want to debate that idiot. What a waste of time. Waste of my time!



retarreded + retarreded = retarrarded

[_Philo Sofee]

Robert Smith is almost as clever a rhetorician as Daniel C. Peterson.......almost... So now we have it that when Joseph Smith was talking about the Priesthood, its not really the priesthood because Robert Smith says so. Got it. Every time Joseph Smith says something that is later demonstrably phony, the apologetic is that Smith did not really say or mean what has been demonstrated false. More word games. So priesthood is not really priesthood in the Book of Abraham or facsimiles. It must be.........um...........seance?

[Guest]

This was a fascinating podcast. Thanks for the link. I haven't done a Mormonstories episode in years, but this was worth my time.

What I found most fascinating was how much the Mormons via the Masons copied the Egyptian religion. Well...all of Christianity copied the Egyptian pagan religion... The whole resurrection and Virgin birth, preexistance, temples, and using a secret name to get past the guard at the gates/veil is fascinating to me. I don't find it fascinating or compelling because it is true. I find it fascinating because I love science fiction and fantasy and cultural history in general. It really is what made Mormonism so great. It's too bad the church has abandoned all this philosophy and teachings and history. "I don't think we teach that... I don't think we emphasize it..." It's awesome and it made Mormonism "interesting". Now Mormonism is simply another protestant evangelical branch of Christianity. Boo.

Best part of the podcast is when they were talking about the Egyptian facsimile where the Egyptian God is masturbating and using his "seed" to populate the worlds, and RFM says, "that is how we got the "Big Bang theory". Classic moment . A literal laugh out loud moment. Great job consiglieri.

The masterbating God seeding the worlds...that should a have been one of those teachings that was to be revealed in the temple. Can you imagine shulem? OMG, If only Joseph Smith was a prophet and had been able to read the hieroglyphic. What a great religion and temple experience it could have been.

[_cwald]

p.s. consiglieri. You earned that A grade. Good work.

[_moksha]

Any update regarding the podcast with Shirts and Osborne?