Steve Smoot is a Cruise Lady Tour Guide?

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

I don’t even know where to begin. SeN just posted a very bizarre entry justifying why DCP is entitled to lavish paid vacations and why it’s not priestcraft.

There are just too many Mopologetic gems in the SeN post for me to do it justice. I hope Dr. Scratch can find the time this week between his teaching duties and research projects to address this:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... nd-me.html

[_Doctor Scratch]

This, by the way, is the basis for my remarks on Smoot's sartorial choices. That looks like a wool jacket. I am loving the notched lapels and the pocket is terrific. The stitched-in line below the breast pocket is a really nice detail. Whatever the case may be, in my humble opinion that is a damned beautiful jacket.

[_Everybody Wang Chung]

This, by the way, is the basis for my remarks on Smoot's sartorial choices. That looks like a wool jacket. I am loving the notched lapels and the pocket is terrific. The stitched-in line below the breast pocket is a really nice detail. Whatever the case may be, in my humble opinion that is a damned beautiful jacket.

I see a Mr Mac commercial in Steve Smoot’s future.

[_moksha]

I think it is disgusting. But I hate cruises, so I'm biased. I'll get on a boat to sport fish, but not to hear some twit.

Bob, wouldn't a strategically placed Smoot lecture after lunch lead to a good nap before dinner?

[_Stem]

I think it is disgusting. But I hate cruises, so I'm biased. I'll get on a boat to sport fish, but not to hear some twit.

Every time I hop on a boat to fish (I don't know what sport fish is, but I'm guessing fishing is involved) I hear from someone, at least, like a twit. Who the hell else do you fish with? That'd be awesome to sign up for one of these cruise tours and sit on the deck tossing some lines in the water. I'm guessing they wouldn't allow it, but it'd be funny to do. "Good point, young Smoot. Looking for evidence for the Book of Abraham is a silly venture. Why didn't' we just start out with that...oh...lookie here, I got something on the line. Ye fishers of men have inspired me."

[_Symmachus]

Leveraging a masters in Egyptology to make money as a professional tour guide is fine. But leveraging work as a religious educator and prestigious church callings to make money by giving first-class religion to the elite? The word "priestcraft" comes to mind. I personally have no problem with religious pastors being paid for their work, but in the Mormon context this is hypocrisy.

Visualizing a group of wealthy Mormons in the corner of a cruise ship having an opening prayer before a lecture with the most charismatic and spiritual tour guides money can buy makes me want to get as far away from that rameumptom as possible; I'd be making a beeline for the aft bar by the pool on the Aloha Deck to have a double rum-runner.

As the Duke of Orange might put it: "If you're Mormon, they let you do it." Priestcraft is really just a term of abuse for religious money-making one doesn't approve of. There is objectively no such thing, even in a Mormon context. When I see the Faith-Promoting Rumor folks shouting "priestcraft" in their empty theater, I basically see a five year old saying "no fair! I wanna be paid to do Mormonism my way!" But people who are believers and are recognized as such by other believers will determine whether or not this is priestcraft from a believing Mormon point of view; apparently, they do not think it is. The main divide seems to be conservative traditional believers vs. nostalgic liberal Mormons like the very erudite crowd at Faith-Promoting Rumor.

I'm not signing up for a Mormon cruise (or any other kind) ever. But I don't see why it's problem that some people do. I do my thing; they do theirs.

[_Doctor Scratch]

Leveraging a masters in Egyptology to make money as a professional tour guide is fine. But leveraging work as a religious educator and prestigious church callings to make money by giving first-class religion to the elite? The word "priestcraft" comes to mind. I personally have no problem with religious pastors being paid for their work, but in the Mormon context this is hypocrisy.

Visualizing a group of wealthy Mormons in the corner of a cruise ship having an opening prayer before a lecture with the most charismatic and spiritual tour guides money can buy makes me want to get as far away from that rameumptom as possible; I'd be making a beeline for the aft bar by the pool on the Aloha Deck to have a double rum-runner.

As the Duke of Orange might put it: "If you're Mormon, they let you do it." Priestcraft is really just a term of abuse for religious money-making one doesn't approve of. There is objectively no such thing, even in a Mormon context. When I see the Faith-Promoting Rumor folks shouting "priestcraft" in their empty theater, I basically see a five year old saying "no fair! I wanna be paid to do Mormonism my way!" But people who are believers and are recognized as such by other believers will determine whether or not this is priestcraft from a believing Mormon point of view; apparently, they do not think it is. The main divide seems to be conservative traditional believers vs. nostalgic liberal Mormons like the very erudite crowd at Faith-Promoting Rumor.

I'm not signing up for a Mormon cruise (or any other kind) ever. But I don't see why it's problem that some people do. I do my thing; they do theirs.

You make a good point, Symmachus. What is interesting (or entertaining?) in the midst of all of this is that the Mopologists have a long track record of leveling charges of priestcraft at a whole range of fellow religionists--everything from the EV "old cash nexus" (per Midgley) to the more recent attacks on Rodney Meldrum and the Heartlanders. How/why is Medlrum's stuff somehow worse than these cruises?

[_Analytics]

Leveraging a masters in Egyptology to make money as a professional tour guide is fine. But leveraging work as a religious educator and prestigious church callings to make money by giving first-class religion to the elite? The word "priestcraft" comes to mind. I personally have no problem with religious pastors being paid for their work, but in the Mormon context this is hypocrisy.

Visualizing a group of wealthy Mormons in the corner of a cruise ship having an opening prayer before a lecture with the most charismatic and spiritual tour guides money can buy makes me want to get as far away from that rameumptom as possible; I'd be making a beeline for the aft bar by the pool on the Aloha Deck to have a double rum-runner.

As the Duke of Orange might put it: "If you're Mormon, they let you do it." Priestcraft is really just a term of abuse for religious money-making one doesn't approve of. There is objectively no such thing, even in a Mormon context. When I see the Faith-Promoting Rumor folks shouting "priestcraft" in their empty theater, I basically see a five year old saying "no fair! I wanna be paid to do Mormonism my way!" But people who are believers and are recognized as such by other believers will determine whether or not this is priestcraft from a believing Mormon point of view; apparently, they do not think it is. The main divide seems to be conservative traditional believers vs. nostalgic liberal Mormons like the very erudite crowd at Faith-Promoting Rumor.

I'm not signing up for a Mormon cruise (or any other kind) ever. But I don't see why it's problem that some people do. I do my thing; they do theirs.

What do you mean there objectively is no religious money-making that one doesn't approve of? The world is full of judgmental people.

My impression is that this has toned down over the last decade or two, but historically, Mormons self-righteously looked way down on pastors of other churches receiving even a modest living allowance in exchange for their full-time employment as pastors. So when I make accusations of hypocrisy, I'm not meaning to imply that somebody getting a living allowance is intrinsically bad, I'm implying that it is hypocritical to denounce "priestcraft" in others while you are engaging in it yourself.

Attempting to judge Mormonism by its own values, there is clearly a wide blurry line between acceptable and unacceptable first-class educational and religious experiences for the well heeled. For example, I don't think any Mormon would think Steve Smoot is using his position in the Church for unseemly pecuniary gain. In contrast, if, say, Dallin H. Oaks were to announce he was going to lead an intimate group of Mormons on a deluxe excursion to the promised land at whatever the market rate would be for that kind of thing, I think all Mormons would have a problem with it. Somewhere between those two extremes you get to a line of trading your position in the Church for financial advantage, and I'm arguing that according to Mormonism's own values, that is wrong.

Part of my own sensitivity to this has to do with my own background. You are probably too young to be familiar with this, but there used to be a company that published expensive hard-backed full-color illustrated copies of the Book of Mormon. There were other products in their lineup too, including illustrated biographies of the presidents of the Church, illustrated stories of Church History, and illustrated stories from the Bible.

I have the impression that the copyright of this stuff changed hands from company to company over a series of bankruptcies, but in the summer of 1988, the company was called "Eagle Systems", and they had an 18-year old salesman named Analytics who was trying to sell these books to make some money for his mission.

These books were not cheap--Just the illustrated Book of Mormon, which included a set of cassette tapes that provided a dramatized narration, was $600. And remember, this was 1988. With a group of other Utah college-aged salesmen, we traveled to Seattle Washington and scoured the surrounding stakes, trying to convince families about how great their children would turn out if they knew the Book of Mormon inside and out, and that there was no way they'd learn it better than through our deluxe products. And if they didn't have an extra $600 lying around that was no problem! Zion's bank would loan you the money to buy the books with easy monthly payments for only 22% interest. Yes, the Church discourages debt, but the prophets have said there are two exceptions to that: buying a house and education. And no part of your children's education is more important than their education in the scriptures, right?

I'd say that of the doors I knocked on, about 50% of Mormons were sympathetic with what I was doing, even if they couldn't afford it or otherwise weren't inclined to buy. The other 50% of Mormons thought it was morally wrong of me and my company to try to make a buck off of Mormon scriptures. I took an incredible amount of heat over this, including bishops announcing over the pulpit that I should be avoided, and another bishop who happened to be an attorney actually sending me a cease-and-desist letter.

Ironically, the person who authored and narrated Illustrated Stories of the Bible for us was none other than George Durrant--the guy mentioned in the Faith-Promoting Rumor blogpost above who advertised his high-profile church callings as reasons why you should hire him as your cruise guide. I took a ton of front-line heat from Mormons for selling the books that he wrote. This experience somehow makes me feel entitled to take some of the righteous indignation that was directed at me and pass it on to Durrant.

And that's the rest of the story.

[_Yahoo Bot]

I think it is disgusting. But I hate cruises, so I'm biased. I'll get on a boat to sport fish, but not to hear some twit.

Every time I hop on a boat to fish (I don't know what sport fish is, but I'm guessing fishing is involved) I hear from someone, at least, like a twit. Who the hell else do you fish with? That'd be awesome to sign up for one of these cruise tours and sit on the deck tossing some lines in the water. I'm guessing they wouldn't allow it, but it'd be funny to do. "Good point, young Smoot. Looking for evidence for the Book of Abraham is a silly venture. Why didn't' we just start out with that...oh...lookie here, I got something on the line. Ye fishers of men have inspired me."

Glacier Bay fishing for halibut. Eight hours a day; six days straight. Drinking, gambling, cussing. Not that I did much of that.

Seriously: I cannot think of a worse way to spend one's day, than on a cruise and listening to somebody talk about religious history. Trinckets and Lourdes.

[_Lemmie]

Analytics, I love that story! My brother always reminds me that he baptized people on his mission, NOT because of the gospel, but because he was a great salesman, a skill which in no small part was encouraged and honed in his years as a Mormon. That seems to be the bottom line in so many Mormon experiences- you’re selling a product, not living a religion.