Open Letter to Kerry Muhlestein, Mormon Egyptologist

[_Shulem]

For an idea of how Kerry M. would reply to Kerry S., head on over to the Mormon Dialog board. They have a 15 page thread going on the RFM/Dehlin interview of Ritner. It gives me a headache to read their arguments.

It makes me want to puke. I've read some of it and it's pretty hard to take. This is what the cult does to people. They are a vicious lot too. I wouldn't post on that diseased board if my life depended on it. Those people are scum of the earth. Liars and cheats.

[_Kishkumen]

Thank you, that is very nice to say. But RFM has demonstrated the Mormons want no part of truth and reality. They want their mythology over truth, their fantasy over reality. They are simply not capable of coming here and dialoguing, and they know it, and we know it. They cannot win, the evidence refutes them. It actually is just that simple now.

I really like you, Philo, but sometimes it really amazes me to think that you were both a Freemason and a friend of Joe Steve Swick III. Surely there is room in life for myth. We tell stories because we have an imperfect grasp of reality. You talk about reality, but do you really think anyone of us is actually capable of taking in all of what some might describe as the totality of what is real? What offends me about the Mopologists is their insistence that myth is reality, not that they might like myth. I would go so far as to say that they seem to lack any appreciation of or respect for myth, and this is why they insist on being literal about everything.

[_I have a question]

Thank you, that is very nice to say. But RFM has demonstrated the Mormons want no part of truth and reality. They want their mythology over truth, their fantasy over reality. They are simply not capable of coming here and dialoguing, and they know it, and we know it. They cannot win, the evidence refutes them. It actually is just that simple now.

I really like you, Philo, but sometimes it really amazes me to think that you were both a Freemason and a friend of Joe Steve Swick III. Surely there is room in life for myth. We tell stories because we have an imperfect grasp of reality. You talk about reality, but do you really think anyone of us is actually capable of taking in all of what some might describe as the totality of what is real? What offends me about the Mopologists is their insistence that myth is reality, not that they might like myth. I would go so far as to say that they seem to lack any appreciation of or respect for myth, and this is why they insist on being literal about everything.

I don’t think it’s their fault entirely. The Church they were brought up in ingrained in them that all those belief stories were literally true. Adam & Eve - literal, the global flood - literal, The Book of Mormon - literal, The Book Of Abraham - literal. That, in my opinion, is why anyone with a Mormon upbringing finds it hard to accept as myth anything relating to Mormonism. And because the moment they start to accept things as myth, the whole shebang unravels.

[_Holy Ghost]

Excellent letter.

Muhlestein has no intention to engage. Ritner pointed out a million things in the podcast series some of us listened to. Muhlestein mentions an item or two, without mentioning Ritner, and without an attempt to engage what specifically was being said, and then complains about the lack of engagement. He's simply signaling to apologists and using authority (in this case by virtue of his degree) to pacify any questioners. I don't know Muhlestein and I do not care hardly at all about the Book of Abraham. I still think it's about as useful to a Mormon as is 3/4ths of the Old Testament. They simply are largely ignored. For some reason I've followed it to some degree or another and during workouts I listened to the Ritner podcast (it was good). Anyway, I don't know why any Mormon would care at all, anyway.

The Mormon Church could say tomorrow, "the Book of Abraham isn't scripture. I mean we like some of it, but it's not scripture. We're going to take it out of the cannon, even if we believe that one passage we keep quoting. We'll quote it and use it, but the rest, I mean, it's kind weird and may not really represent anything true about the real old time Abraham. Just know, believers, Joseph didn't really elevate it as scripture and it was only elevated as such because back in the 19th century after Joseph died there were some speculations and those took on a life of their own sometimes. But they didn't mislead anyone. I mean it's fine. We're in control and get it. You know? So just keep on believing and reading your scriptures. You can read the Book of Abraham, just don't worry too much about it. And Jesus loves you, don't forget."

And the members largely wouldn't blink an eye. I mean certainly some will be appalled and upset (Gee and Muhlestein will basically lose their jobs), but most won't care. I"m only pointing this out to suggest that's why Muhlestein gets away with it--no one cares.

If, as you posit, no one would care if the LDS leadership dropped the Book of Abraham, that would be a phenomena we are seeing play out on the American political stage right now, right before our own eyes: Trump-mania. Truth doesn't matter to a very large segment of people. Mormonism makes many people feel good, special, the Chosen people. They keep going back for more, for their weekly dose. Trumpism makes many Americans feel good, special, American exceptionalism, and they too, keep going back for more, wanting four more years. Others of us are flummoxed at witnessing this phenomena. How can you keep going to church, "bearing your testimony" and paying tithing? Joseph Smith was a fraud. How can you believe Trump, he lies and exaggerates? Trump is a fraud. But just like downing a pint of Ben and Jerry's at midnight while you are on a diet trying to lose 20 lbs., it's an indulgence. It makes them feel good.

[_consiglieri]

Thank you, that is very nice to say. But RFM has demonstrated the Mormons want no part of truth and reality. They want their mythology over truth, their fantasy over reality. They are simply not capable of coming here and dialoguing, and they know it, and we know it. They cannot win, the evidence refutes them. It actually is just that simple now.

I really like you, Philo, but sometimes it really amazes me to think that you were both a Freemason and a friend of Joe Steve Swick III. Surely there is room in life for myth. We tell stories because we have an imperfect grasp of reality. You talk about reality, but do you really think anyone of us is actually capable of taking in all of what some might describe as the totality of what is real? What offends me about the Mopologists is their insistence that myth is reality, not that they might like myth. I would go so far as to say that they seem to lack any appreciation of or respect for myth, and this is why they insist on being literal about everything.

Maybe myth is like salt.

Good for seasoning but not the main course.

[_Philo Sofee]

Thank you, that is very nice to say. But RFM has demonstrated the Mormons want no part of truth and reality. They want their mythology over truth, their fantasy over reality. They are simply not capable of coming here and dialoguing, and they know it, and we know it. They cannot win, the evidence refutes them. It actually is just that simple now.

I really like you, Philo, but sometimes it really amazes me to think that you were both a Freemason and a friend of Joe Steve Swick III. Surely there is room in life for myth. We tell stories because we have an imperfect grasp of reality. You talk about reality, but do you really think anyone of us is actually capable of taking in all of what some might describe as the totality of what is real? What offends me about the Mopologists is their insistence that myth is reality, not that they might like myth. I would go so far as to say that they seem to lack any appreciation of or respect for myth, and this is why they insist on being literal about everything.

I'm trying to say the same thing, just not as well. I am not quite sure what being a Freemason and friends with Joe Swick has to do with it. I'm missing the connection.

[_aussieguy55]

Kerry has interview up on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gie2y16BsDg

[_Shulem]

Kerry has interview up on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gie2y16BsDg

I have to think that Radio Free Mormon will need to check that out. It may be cause for another EMERGENCY broadcast from the bunker.

If everyone will chip in just $5, I'm sure he'll do it. Oh hell, he will probably do it anyway!

[_Shulem]

Muhlestein speaks in the spirit of lying. His tongue is forked and his mind is twisted with the intent to deceive and lead astray. The testimony that Mullestein has about the restored gospel is false and self induced by his own self-deception. Now he thinks to spread the Mormon disease by preaching the authenticity of the Book of Abraham and in doing so he has a lying spirit and a countenance of deceit. I can see it. I can feel it. He is a liar at heart. He lies to himself and he lies to everyone publicly.

Muhlestein is an APOSTATE Egyptologist and should be defrocked from the community in which he claims to serve. Egyptologists worldwide should combine to cut the APOSTATES Gee and Muhlestein from the community.

The Mormons need to be put in their place. This charade has gone on long enough.

They want war! They will have war and all the casualties that go with it. What a horrible price the Church will pay.

Time to lob those "grenades" at John Gee!

[_Kishkumen]

I am not quite sure what being a Freemason and friends with Joe Swick has to do with it. I'm missing the connection.

Only that Freemasonry is founded on certain myths that are taken as having a symbolic and moral value, which nevertheless are not historically accurate. Am I mistaken in thinking that guys like you (in the past I presume) and Joe (I wish him the best) felt that Freemasonry is/was a spiritually valuable initiatic system despite the fact that its central narratives are not literally historical/ancient?