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Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:31 pm
by hauslern
https://interpreterfoundation.org/estim ... idence-13/
" Many faithful scholars have long seen chiasmus and other assorted ancient literary structures as formidable evidence on the side of the Book of Mormon, and this analysis does nothing to change that perception."
Really?
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:31 pm
by drumdude
Zzzzzzz
Chiasmus is like a nice thanksgiving TV dinner. Yeah they were super popular and novel 50 years ago. But they lost their novelty fairly quickly.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:37 pm
by Philo Sofee
Chiasmus in Dr. Seuss has proven to me he was inspired and his writings are scripture, scripture for kids. That's about all the energy I can muster on this. And I have exactly no time to worry about what Rasmussen even has to say, since right now the ancient Egyptian Pyramid Texts are occupying me for the week. And they have vastly more information and truth than Rasmussen will ever squeak into his analysis. And to think, he really could have kept his audience had he even wanted to do it correctly instead of apologetically. So sad... for him.
I'm also working up my video for this weekend. That matters to me so much more than anything Rasmussen will say for the next 60 years I cannot even describe it legitimately.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:56 pm
by huckelberry
I took a quick look at this and saw a chart marking results for things considered thus far. It had a huge favorable number for early modern English. I am almost at a loss for words to say how ...(unreliable that would be).
I was going to wonder how much consideration would be given to chiasmus form being a natural organizing principal that might be more common in oral compositions. How about extemporaneous sermons by people with some experience exhorting? When reading the Book of Mormon I wondered if some patterns fit a sort of rhythmic pattern natural to Joseph's oral method of composition. Ancient writers might have found that as well.They may have been influenced by oral memory and exhortation techniques.
After seeing the Early Modern English thing I will not try to read the article to find out if such matters are considered unless some people here say there is some significant observations in it.
//////
warning,,, I have no academic credentials in the study of oral traditions or recitations or in ancient poetry and its links with oral preservation.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:17 am
by malkie
huckelberry wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:56 pm
I took a quick look at this and saw a chart marking results for things considered thus far. It had a huge favorable number for early modern English. I am almost at a loss for words to say how ...(unreliable that would be).
I was going to wonder how much consideration would be given to chiasmus form being a natural organizing principal that might be more common in oral compositions. How about extemporaneous sermons by people with some experience exhorting? When reading the Book of Mormon I wondered if some patterns fit a sort of rhythmic pattern natural to Joseph's oral method of composition. Ancient writers might have found that as well.They may have been influenced by oral memory and exhortation techniques.
After seeing the Early Modern English thing I will not try to read the article to find out if such matters are considered unless some people here say there is some significant observations in it.
//////
warning,,, I have no academic credentials in the study of oral traditions or recitations or in ancient poetry and its links with oral preservation.
There seems to be a form of preaching which goes like this:
1. Tell them what you're going to tell them
2. Tell them.
3. Tell them what you told them.
https://docest.com/1-introduction-tell- ... -tell-them
Even the laying out of the 3 steps is a bit chiastic.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:33 am
by Kukulkan
If they put as much effort into digging up Hill Cumorah as they do with trying to shove chiasmus down our throats every decade we could have a museum filled with Nephite and Lamanite artifacts!
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:57 am
by Moksha
The substance may not hold water, but a rare literary form scores a bullseye.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:50 am
by Philo Sofee
Kukulkan wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:33 am
If they put as much effort into digging up Hill Cumorah as they do with trying to shove chiasmus down our throats every decade we could have a museum filled with Nephite and Lamanite artifacts!
Now that right thar... that right thar is a mighty fine suggestion!
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:55 am
by Philo Sofee
Moksha wrote: ↑Fri Oct 01, 2021 12:57 am
The substance may not hold water, but a rare literary form scores a bullseye.
Even if it's in Chinese or Japanese texts, they could fine a way to make it score for the "Mesoamerican" one...kinda like in the Odyssey, it almost starts out with its invocation of the Muse like "I Odysseus, being a crafty man, and large of stature, yet having been highly favored of the Zeus, make a record of mine wanderings on sea, and I make it with mine own stylus, and I make it according to mine own wit and skill, yet, only after I edit my old man's crap, since, apparently, as the Patriarch of the clan, I suppose that old fart takes precedence."
This to me looks like it could have parallels in Alma or perhaps 3rd Nephi somewhere. Someone is gonna have to have a keen eye, and I betcha Interpreter could get some FAIR folks on it real fast as soon as the More Good Foundation is notified that funds are short, and could they borrow a few million to get started? That could really help out when the rains hit us here soon.
Re: Rasmussen on Chiasmus in the Book of Mormon
Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 1:56 am
by MG 2.0
Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:37 pm
Chiasmus in Dr. Seuss has proven to me he was inspired and his writings are scripture, scripture for kids. That's about all the energy I can muster on this.
Are you a proponent of Loftes Tryk? He proposes that Joseph Smith did not know about chiasmus, praises the sophistication and elegance of the chiastic structure in the Book of Mormon, and ascribes this structure to Satan.
pg.5
https://scholarsarchive.BYU.edu/cgi/vie ... text=byusq
Regards,
MG
