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Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:57 pm
by Dr Exiled
I wonder if E. Stevenson has already been contacted by Deseret Trust? His kids should step up and voice their opinion as the church wants their inheritance.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:51 pm
by Equality
Dr Moore wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:24 pm
Making this into an issue is dumb.

He co founded a business and still owns shares. He served on the board because he’s one of the most qualified people to serve on the board.

He also served in the church and rose to the highest ranks.

Big deal.

None of the money he’s made was earned as a board member.

I see nothing to see here. Except for a reminder that the church promotes wealthy, educated men instead of uneducated, poor fisherman and laborers to the apostleship.
Some people might call that a pretty big something.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:46 am
by IHAQ
Dr Moore wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:24 pm
Making this into an issue is dumb.

He co founded a business and still owns shares. He served on the board because he’s one of the most qualified people to serve on the board.

He also served in the church and rose to the highest ranks.

Big deal.

None of the money he’s made was earned as a board member.

I see nothing to see here. Except for a reminder that the church promotes wealthy, educated men instead of uneducated, poor fisherman and laborers to the apostleship.
The issue isn’t that an individual has done well financially. The issue is that the Church promotes the idea to its members that Apostles are called full time and give up their worldly remuneration in return for a lifetime of service, and that once again the Church has been wilfully misleading members.
In the early 1990s, the Encyclopedia of Mormonism (prepared in conjunction with the Church) noted:

Unlike local leaders, who maintain their normal vocations while serving in Church assignments, General Authorities set aside their careers to devote their full time to the ministry of their office. The living allowance given General Authorities rarely if ever equals the earnings they sacrifice to serve full-time in the Church.[4]
https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/ans ... ng_stipend
In a 2013 manual for Church teens, the text indicates:

In our day, General Authorities of the Church give up their livelihoods to serve full-time, so they receive a modest living allowance—enough for them to support themselves and their families.
Clearly they don’t give up their livelihoods.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:57 pm
by Philo Sofee
Dr Exiled wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 2:57 pm
I wonder if E. Stevenson has already been contacted by Deseret Trust? His kids should step up and voice their opinion as the church wants their inheritance.
Oh he can leave them a couple a thousand. It's the Kingdom of God which is important, not mere children. Keep the priorities right is the key... Jesus is watching and taking notes of who is faithful and who isn't...

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:04 pm
by Dr Moore
IHAQ wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:46 am
Clearly they don’t give up their livelihoods.
Would you rather the church strip GAs of their possessions first? Gary held the shares in this company, which he co founded, for decades. That’s where his wealth originated. He didn’t “earn” any material part of it while a GA. For him not to have become a billionaire this year, you’re suggesting he should have been forced to give away his founder shares in the company.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
by IHAQ
Dr Moore wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:04 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:46 am
Clearly they don’t give up their livelihoods.
Would you rather the church strip GAs of their possessions first? Gary held the shares in this company, which he co founded, for decades. That’s where his wealth originated. He didn’t “earn” any material part of it while a GA. For him not to have become a billionaire this year, you’re suggesting he should have been forced to give away his founder shares in the company.
Did you even read my post?

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:08 pm
by Dr Moore
IHAQ wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 2:16 pm
Did you even read my post?
Absolutely. You've said:
IHAQ wrote:Well we now know that’s not strictly true. In fact, it’s a lie. “Some” have been given special dispensation to carry on earning rather than working full time for the Church.
IHAQ wrote:I think the bigger question now, is what else has been hidden from members with regards to the earnings of the people who were supposed to be full time servants of Christ…
IHAQ wrote:Gary E. $tevenson is proof positive that Apostles aren’t these humble men, sacrificing worldly wealth so they can serve full time.
IHAQ wrote:Will Gary be selling his shares and donating all the proceeds to LDS Charities as Holland and Jesus suggest?
IHAQ wrote:Eric clearly wasn’t telling the whole truth when he said “General authorities leave their careers…” and “they focus all of their time on serving the church…”. They may leave full time employment behind, but Billionaire Gary shows us they don’t leave behind the trappings and earnings and their positions on boards etc.
IHAQ wrote:I willing to speculate that he made retaining his source of income a condition of his accepting the calling.
IHAQ wrote:The issue is that the Church promotes the idea to its members that Apostles are called full time and give up their worldly remuneration in return for a lifetime of service, and that once again the Church has been wilfully misleading members.
IHAQ wrote:Clearly they don’t give up their livelihoods.
All of which, if I read correctly, suggests that you take umbrage with the idea that Gary has continued to receive "earnings" or "remuneration" for his board service while he was an apostle. I don't think that is correct. (CORRECTION: I was wrong. The S1 clearly lays out how Gary was compensated for board service, and with a near $1M in loan forgiveness, and other compesnation, totaling well over $1 million for 2021. Shame... I was under the understanding that apostles were specifically -- and to a degree, legally -- proscribed from for-profit commercial enterprise activity during their full-time service.)

----
Now to my question, about asking apostles to hand over all property before serving, which would have included all of Gary's 15% holdings in iFIT. I asked because in 2 of the posts above, you suggested exactly this, but that he should do so voluntarily. That seems unreasonable, but then again, I would actually prefer an argument that the church has set the goalposts in the wrong place. In other words, that all apostles, since they're paid a living allowance, should first SHOW FAITH by giving all their worldly possessions to the Church of Jesus Christ.

Because whether it's this situation, or others involving wealth, the church does not dissuade its membership from weighing money as a sign of divine favor. And that's a problem.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:50 pm
by Tom
A few things I noted:

For FY 2021, Stevenson received a cash retainer of $40,000 for service as a non-employee director (plus $1,793,891 in "all other compensation," including "a loan initially extended in 1999 to Mr. Stevenson amounting to $990,660 and related payments of $803,231 in connection with the forgiveness of such loan in fiscal year 2021") (Draft Registration Statement - Amendment, filed June 29, 2021, p. 140).

For FY 2021, Robert Gay did not receive any compensation as a non-employee director (same).

Stevenson received a cash retainer of $40,000 for service as a non-employee director for FY 2020 (Draft Registration Statement, filed Mar. 26, 2021, p. 126).

As a non-employee director, Gay instructed that his cash retainer of $40,000 for FY 2020 be paid directly to another non-employee director (same).

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:02 pm
by Dr Moore
Tom wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:50 pm
A few things I noted:

For FY 2021, Stevenson received a cash retainer of $40,000 for service as a non-employee director (plus $1,793,891 in "all other compensation," including "a loan initially extended in 1999 to Mr. Stevenson amounting to $990,660 and related payments of $803,231 in connection with the forgiveness of such loan in fiscal year 2021") (Draft Registration Statement - Amendment, filed June 29, 2021, p. 140).
This is actually rather a shocking black and white reveal in the S1. Now the numbers may be tiny relative to Gary's ownership in the company and his wealth, but it's a black and white case of an apostle being compensated for commercial enterprise work while sitting as an apostle. During his service as apostle, he should have been required to refuse all of these forms of compensation.

Re: Currently serving Apostle set to become $Billionaire

Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:10 pm
by Tom
Dr. Moore, I noted that Stevenson took a leave of absence from ICON to serve as a mission president but continued to receive a base salary plus bonus during the mission term. I wonder if that is a typical deal for company executives who are called to serve as mission presidents.