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BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:46 pm
by IHAQ
Might traditional religion actually be a protective factor against suicidality for youths, including LGBTQ youths?
A forthcoming analysis of data from the 2019 Utah Prevention Needs Assessment survey suggests that Latter-day Saint LGBQ youths (gender identity wasn’t looked at in the study) had lower levels of reported depression and suicidality than nonreligious LGBQ youths.
Published by three professors at Brigham Young University, the study also found that Latter-day Saint youths generally reported better outcomes in terms of depression and suicidality than their nonreligious peers.
In a separate study, recently published by Psychology of Sexual Orientation and Gender Diversity, researchers from Bowling Green State University analyzed the same data set and similarly found LGBTQ-Latter-day Saints had lower suicide risk than those of other faiths or no faith.
https://www.deseret.com/opinion/2021/10 ... ion-Mormon
A bold claim. What data set are they basing this on?
The sample was 51.1% female, 48.5% male, with .4% choosing another gender category. Regarding race, 73.4% were white, 17.3% were Hispanic, and 9.3% were other. The sample was 51.7% Latter-day Saint, 8.3% Catholic, 1.1% Protestant, 0.2% Jewish, 4.6% of another religion, and 20.5% had no religious preference. Regarding sexual orientation, 64.9% were heterosexual, 3.7% were bisexual, 1.0% gay or lesbian, and 3.2% not sure. Another 27.2% were missing values.
https://foundations.prod.brigham-young. ... uicidality
So the claim
“Latter-day Saint LGBQ youths (gender identity wasn’t looked at in the study) had lower levels of reported depression and suicidality than nonreligious LGBQ youths” is based on a data set where only 1% identified as gay or lesbian?
Edited to add: The 3 BYU Professors responsible are: Justin Dyer, Michael Goodman and David Wood
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 12:56 pm
by Philo Sofee
This is like finding the word "the" in an ancient manuscript from Mesoamerica and showing the parallel with the word in the Book of Mormon. One can be optimistic about anything if one sets parameters in such a way that even Bayes Theorem can confirm what one believes.
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:57 pm
by Lem
After a quick look at the paper, a lot of problems jumped out. I'm not on the right platform to cut and paste, so from memory, If I recall correctly , some issues were:
--The data set was 6th through 9th graders. Even the authors admitted 6th graders may not have understood the sexual orientation question, which may have been the reason for the almost a third of respondents leaving it blank. Anecdotally reported, one sixth grader told them that.
--this age group was then compared to CDC and national suicide ideation and attempts for high school
seniors.
--they "controlled" for intentionally incorrect answers by including a question with 1 to 5 as answers, asking 'how honest were you in responding?' As though kids would be honest there when they weren't elsewhere.
--they controlled for the missing sexual orientation data by concluding they were most like the heterosexual group.
--they found lds were very unlikely to indicate they were lgbtq. See above.
--they
assumed that 2 parent homes are more protective than any other arrangement.
--over 50% of the respondents identified as lds.
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm
by dastardly stem
Lem wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:57 pm
After a quick look at the paper, a lot of problems jumped out. I'm not on the right platform to cut and paste, so from memory, If I recall correctly , some issues were:
--The data set was 6th through 9th graders. Even the authors admitted 6th graders may not have understood the sexual orientation question, which may have been the reason for the almost a third of respondents leaving it blank. Anecdotally reported, one sixth grader told them that.
--this age group was then compared to CDC and national suicide ideation and attempts for high school
seniors.
--they "controlled" for intentionally incorrect answers by including a question with 1 to 5 as answers, asking 'how honest were you in responding?' As though kids would be honest there when they weren't elsewhere.
--they controlled for the missing sexual orientation data by concluding they were most like the heterosexual group.
--they found lds were very unlikely to indicate they were lgbtq. See above.
--they
assumed that 2 parent homes are more protective than any other arrangement.
--over 50% of the respondents identified as lds.
Wow. What a mess this is. Absolute garbage. And yet they make all these claims?
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:28 pm
by malkie
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:07 pm
Lem wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:57 pm
After a quick look at the paper, a lot of problems jumped out. I'm not on the right platform to cut and paste, so from memory, If I recall correctly , some issues were:
--The data set was 6th through 9th graders. Even the authors admitted 6th graders may not have understood the sexual orientation question, which may have been the reason for the almost a third of respondents leaving it blank. Anecdotally reported, one sixth grader told them that.
--this age group was then compared to CDC and national suicide ideation and attempts for high school
seniors.
--they "controlled" for intentionally incorrect answers by including a question with 1 to 5 as answers, asking 'how honest were you in responding?' As though kids would be honest there when they weren't elsewhere.
--they controlled for the missing sexual orientation data by concluding they were most like the heterosexual group.
--they found lds were very unlikely to indicate they were lgbtq. See above.
--they
assumed that 2 parent homes are more protective than any other arrangement.
--over 50% of the respondents identified as lds.
Wow. What a mess this is. Absolute garbage. And yet they make all these claims?
Details, details!
What I want to know is if they claim to use a Bayesian framework for the analysis of the data, and if they have gone through a painfully exacting review process with qualified reviewers who are unwilling to lend their names to the study.
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:52 pm
by Physics Guy
David Wood is in the School of Social Work while the other two are in Religious Education. I’m a little surprised at a Social Work prof lumping 6th through 12th graders together on a question like this.
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:04 pm
by drumdude
Using 6th graders as pawns in the culture war, way to go LDS Inc.
Up next, a study on how LDS are more likely to not be divorced. LDS sample group is 5th graders, control group is single moms we found in battered womens' shelters.
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:17 pm
by Lem
I looked back, survey was from grades 6, 8, 10, and 12. No breakdown by grade, but this was noted:
is worth noting that those missing sexual orientation data were most likely to be in 6th grade (mean = 6.11) whereas heterosexuals and LGBQ individuals were more likely to be three grades higher (means of 9.95 and 9.74 respectively). It may be that sixth graders had difficulty answering the sexual orientation question.45
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:34 pm
by Lem
So the paper didn't show grade breakdown, but the 2019 SHARP survey, their source, did.
Huh. So 32% of the survey was 12 year olds.
And there are footnotes about a couple of questions:
which of the following best describe you?**
Heterosexual (straight)
Gay or Lesbian
Bisexual
Not sure/Other
** A question about sexual orientation was added to the 2019 survey instrument used by 8th, 10th, and 12th graders. (6th grade surveys omitted this question.)
https://dsamh.utah.gov/pdf/sharp/2019/S ... Report.pdf
Is it possible they didn't notice that the 6th graders didn't have that question, so that's why
"sixth graders had difficulty answering the sexual orientation question" ?????
I'll see if I can confirm this...
Re: BYU Professors claim LDS Church reduces risk of depression/suicide in LGBTQ
Posted: Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:50 pm
by Lem
From the BYU article:
Another 27.2% were missing values.
We were interested in this large group of individuals
who did not report their sexual orientation.
We thought it may be possible these individuals
would be more likely to be LGBQ youth who were unwilling to disclose their sexuality, even on
an anonymous survey.
We therefore conducted the same analyses with this group as with the
heterosexual and LGBQ groups to see whether they were more like the heterosexual or non
heterosexual youth.
A simpler approach would have been to note 6th graders weren't asked.
Also, I'll try to confirm, but looking at the 2019 SHARP survey they were using, it was NOT 27.2% "missing values."
Out of 86,346 surveys, there were 57,678 responses to the sexual orientation question, or 28,688 missing responses, which is 33.2%.
That seems logical, given 32% of the surveys were answered by 6th graders, who were not asked that question.
This is looking really bad for the BYU paper.