Shoutouts to Shulem and Consiglieri and Dr. Shades

[Philo Sofee]

That was a sheer delight! It was both a Halloween trick & treat, but an honest trick in showing how the apologists are the ones doing the real tricking! This podcast really resonated with me and in more ways than one -- thanks for the plug and the recognition of my long standing hard work of trying to get these particulars out in the forefront where they can be fully analyzed and examined under a magnifying glass without all the other distractions apologists love to throw into the mix to get us to take our "eyes of the prize".

Well done. I'll have to post a link up in Celestial Forum thread. You never can tell, we may be visited by apologetic dignitaries because of the nature of the Celestial Forum and the strict rules of being respectful and civil -- and that forum is heavily moderated both by moderators and posters. It is not a sty! I for one would not tolerate any inappropriate behavior let along from myself. It really is a place where anyone and everyone can come and weigh in on the subject matter at hand: That pesky writing above the head and hands! The apologists don't want to take us on. We here at Discuss Mormonism are the foremost experts and most capable scholars who refute the apologists and all that baggage they carry. I don't mean to brag but I'm simply saying that this board *IS* their worst nightmare in defending the Book of Abraham. They are not going to be able to pull their tricks on us because we can see them and define them as they do them and catch the magician in the act. Isn't that right, RFM? Where the hell is RFM when you need him? lol

Anyway, well done, and I'm giving it a second listen today, for sure. It's on pause right now.

Thank you that is very nice of you. Much more to appear as I can...

[Shulem]

I know the feeling, but at least you get to enjoy the videos! Can't you comment as a guest or something? Just curious.

You have to have a YouTube account in order to comment. You can't even give a thumbs up without an account.

What a great podcast! The apologists are going to be buzzing about it and who knows what will come of it?

[hauslern]

I found what in my opinion some bizzare defences of the Book of Abraham in the paper in the interpreter by a CSE employee John S Thompson. We know there were gaps in the papyri which Smith filled in somewhat incorrectly in the published version.
"Why Joseph Smith had texts or figures copied from elsewhere in the papyri collection in order to fill holes in these three illustrations is not given in the historical sources. Some may assume that Joseph Smith was attempting to restore how the ancient Egyptians would have [Page 23]originally depicted the missing portions, but this is conjecture. It is just as plausible, since he merely had texts and figures copied from elsewhere in the collection and did not pretend to restore anything unique where these holes exist, that his main purpose was to fill the holes for aesthetic or functional purposes relative to publishing, not to restore the original ancient Egyptian religious iconography."
https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... est-price/

Figure 3 in facsimile 2 was taken from this piece of papyri. See bottom left hand.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-87 ... Dge0E/edit

I looked through the colour plates of Tamas Mekis book The Hypocehalus:an Ancient Egyptian Funerary Amulet and all seem to have the boat and the scarab above.
See the British museum collection. https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... t/Y_EA8445

[hauslern]

But Smith claims figure 3 represents "God sitting upon his throne"Thompson's argues "Joseph Smith himself removed these threeillustrations from their immediate Egyptian context and reinterpreted them to fit the story of Abraham he revealed" Mormon apologetics can take some bizzare turns.

[Shulem]

I found what in my opinion some bizzare defences of the Book of Abraham in the paper in the interpreter by a CSE employee John S Thompson. We know there were gaps in the papyri which Smith filled in somewhat incorrectly in the published version.
"Why Joseph Smith had texts or figures copied from elsewhere in the papyri collection in order to fill holes in these three illustrations is not given in the historical sources. Some may assume that Joseph Smith was attempting to restore how the ancient Egyptians would have [Page 23]originally depicted the missing portions, but this is conjecture. It is just as plausible, since he merely had texts and figures copied from elsewhere in the collection and did not pretend to restore anything unique where these holes exist, that his main purpose was to fill the holes for aesthetic or functional purposes relative to publishing, not to restore the original ancient Egyptian religious iconography."

Welcome to the Terrestrial Board where sinning is a pleasure!





Criminy, these apologists are dumber than a box of rocks. Interpreter is a house of fools. Lousy scholarship. Allow me to explain. Nobody had access to the papyrus and manuscripts unless they had access to President Smith’s office. The contents of the papyrus and manuscripts were locked up. Nobody knew the exact condition of the papyrus unless they were given special access under the direction of President Smith’s office, be it the clerk or the prophet himself.

Smith never imagined that the papyrus could be PHOTO COPIED and reviewed by millions through the miracle of pixels being transformed and duplicated digitally as we enjoy today. Smith ASSumed his papyrus would ever be a mystery and he could show or hide whatever he wanted according to his whims.

With that said, he was free to do whatever he wanted with the papyrus while being unchallenged and unquestioned by anyone and everyone UNTILL we of the latter-days are able to use our forensic-like skills to trace and track down what the prophet actually did. Smith had no idea that ME (Shulem ) was going to expose him 180 years later and that his dear Jesus hadn’t even bothered to come back and his successors had thrown him under the bus and left him for dead.

RIP, dear Joseph.

[consiglieri]

If Joseph Smith filled in missing portions of Facsimile Two for aesthetic reasons, why did he interpret it?

[hauslern]

Bingo that's a question I was thinking about.

[Shulem]

If Joseph Smith filled in missing portions of Facsimile Two for aesthetic reasons, why did he interpret it?

There is no "IF" about it, consig. I remind you of the FACT regarding the large cut (Facsimile No. 2) was under Smith's total control:

At my office exhibiting the Book of Abraham in the original to Brother Reuben Hedlock, so that he might take the size of the several plates or cuts, and prepare the blocks for the Times and Seasons; and also gave instruction concerning the arrangement of the writing on the large cut, illustrating the principles of astronomy, with other general business.

Smith filled in the missing portions of the Facsimile and instructed Hedlock concerning the arrangement of the writing. It was Joseph Smith who filled in the missing portions and he did it for the purpose of translating them how ever he wanted and nobody was going to question or challenge his translations. Nobody! Why? Because nobody could "read" Egyptian except for Joseph Smith! He said so himself.

Let us not forget that all this "will be given in the own due time of the Lord."