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Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:40 pm
by Shulem
Shulem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:32 pm
Suppose just for kicks that all of the Kirtland Papers and papyri were lost and there was no Facsimiles published in the original publication of the Book of Abraham -- ONLY CHAPTERS AND EXPLANATIONS of the lost vignettes in the original papyrus, whereas today, that would mean all we have is the chapters of the Book of Abraham and Explanations that Smith originally published. Imagine that. If that were the case, apologists today would be asserting that smith literally translated the papyrus (now lost) and that the Explanations that describes the missing vignette of Facsimile No. 3 were literal and correct translations and matched exactly even as Egyptologists today would translate if they had the original papyrus in which Smith translated.
Dr. Kerry Muhlestein wrote:
We don't have the original papyrus or vignettes and no copies were ever made so we can't tell what was on them except through Joseph Smith's inspired Explanations of those three missing vignettes. But Smith literally translated the Egyptian hieroglyphics from the vignettes and if we had them today we could prove it was a literal translation and the prophet could indeed read Egyptian as he claimed he could.
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:30 pm
by Philo Sofee
Shulem wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:06 pm
Bought Yahoo wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:55 pm
Great podcast. But I wanted to throw a rock in the pond behind you.
I think you wanted to do more than that.
Bought Yahoo wrote:
Come here little girl
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:26 am
by Moksha
Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:49 pm
There is, and we shall have to figure it out, perhaps through zoom or something... I have contemplated this yet haven't talked to Shulem yet, though I think I can talk him into it.
Like you with a split-screen of Anubis and the voice of Shulem? Perhaps that degree of anonymity would overcome his hesitancy.
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:27 pm
by Philo Sofee
Moksha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:26 am
Philo Sofee wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:49 pm
There is, and we shall have to figure it out, perhaps through zoom or something... I have contemplated this yet haven't talked to Shulem yet, though I think I can talk him into it.
Like you with a split-screen of Anubis and the voice of Shulem? Perhaps that degree of anonymity would overcome his hesitancy.
Oh hey! That's actually a really good suggestion! Thanks, I shall look into this!
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:21 pm
by dastardly stem
Nice video, Philo. Enjoyed it.
If the Church had any sense it would have abandoned the Book of Abraham as some semblance of historicity regarding Abraham and his story, years ago. It would have relegated it to modern riffing, of sorts, on ancient historical ideas, or some such thing.
But you're right. There is one passage that the Church has relied on so heavily, and the members have embraced so thoroughly, they can't drop it as scripture. And, at this point, to say it is myth, of sorts, playing off of Abraham can't be a good look to faithful members. It's a tough spot. And its hardly the only tough spot. I really can't see a good way forward for the Church. I'm sure it'll survive in the coming decades, but I don't know how that will be possible.
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:28 pm
by Philo Sofee
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 3:21 pm
Nice video, Philo. Enjoyed it.
If the Church had any sense it would have abandoned the Book of Abraham as some semblance of historicity regarding Abraham and his story, years ago. It would have relegated it to modern riffing, of sorts, on ancient historical ideas, or some such thing.
But you're right. There is one passage that the Church has relied on so heavily, and the members have embraced so thoroughly, they can't drop it as scripture. And, at this point, to say it is myth, of sorts, playing off of Abraham can't be a good look to faithful members. It's a tough spot. And its hardly the only tough spot. I really can't see a good way forward for the Church. I'm sure it'll survive in the coming decades, but I don't know how that will be possible.
Thanks man, that means a lot. It is a tough spot on the premortal existence idea. Perhaps that is why they are just more or less sitting on it, not quoting it, or teaching much of what is in it, at least not from the upper echelons of those inhabiting the nose bleed sections of the hierarchy anyway. I think you're right, it's not like the church will implode over the Book of Abraham anytime soon. It is more a slow death as I see it.
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:33 pm
by Moksha
Isn't Kerry great at picking scenic locations? Do wind filters exist to quiet those stray gusts from the Sonoran Desert (probably sent by a powerful Mormon Brujo to keep us from hearing clearly)?
Re: New Video on the Joseph Smith Papyri and Eviscerating Kerry Muhlestein
Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:44 pm
by Philo Sofee
Moksha wrote: ↑Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:33 pm
Isn't Kerry great at picking scenic locations? Do wind filters exist to quiet those stray gusts from the Sonoran Desert (probably sent by a powerful Mormon Brujo to keep us from hearing clearly)?
Yeah, I am working on that part. I do have a cover, but it's mickey mouse silly so it doesn't work really well. I will get something rigged up so I can keep doing outside stuff as well. It really IS an enjoyable part of my work to get out there and videoing in the wild. I appreciate knowing it is appreciated...