RFM v. Midnight Mormons—Debate

[doubtingthomas]

I'm in a different place than you in regards to how I view the leaders of the LDS church.

Have you ever tried psychedelics to receive revelation? It is a very profound experience. Please don't question what some people experience on psychedelics.

[MG 2.0]

You think that these questions are the most basic things that people need to answer but, in fact, they are based on a series of totally unsupported assumptions:

1) That at least one god exists
2) That there is not more than one god
3) That the god which may exist was not created by some "grandpa in heaven"
4) That the single god which may exist is actually a male
5) That the god which may exist is morally good
6) That moral goodness is a thing which exists independent of the god's existence
7) That humans are the offspring ("children") of this hypothetical male god
8) That the hypothetical god is even aware, much less cares about what tiny, short-lived, insignificant beings like us think or want
9) That finite, insignificant humans could ever come into contact or know the mind of being(s) that exist outside of space-time
10) That Judaism is not a madeup variant of Canaanite paganism, itself a descendant of superstitious desert animist beliefs
11) That ancient Christianity was actually Mormonism, even though there is literally zero evidence for this
12) That Mormonism is not a mishmash of American and European Protestant philosophies blended with 19th century frontier superstition and primitive scientific understandings.

Apparently you don't believe in the authenticity of the LDS canon. If the canon reveals the mind and will of God, you have your answers. If not, I don't either.

Regards,
MG

[doubtingthomas]

Unless, of course, God called these men to guide and direct our paths in these troubled and unpredictable times. And to show us the path back to His presence.

It is the exact same thing the members of the FLDS religion say. Some of them testify in tears that the FLDS church is true.

[doubtingthomas]

Apparently you don't believe in the authenticity of the LDS canon. If the canon reveals the mind and will of God, you have your answers. If not, I don't either.

Regards,
MG

I prayed about Book of the Law of the Lord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_t ... f_the_Lord

[Alphus and Omegus]

You think that these questions are the most basic things that people need to answer but, in fact, they are based on a series of totally unsupported assumptions:

1) That at least one god exists
2) That there is not more than one god
3) That the god which may exist was not created by some "grandpa in heaven"
4) That the single god which may exist is actually a male
5) That the god which may exist is morally good
6) That moral goodness is a thing which exists independent of the god's existence
7) That humans are the offspring ("children") of this hypothetical male god
8) That the hypothetical god is even aware, much less cares about what tiny, short-lived, insignificant beings like us think or want
9) That finite, insignificant humans could ever come into contact or know the mind of being(s) that exist outside of space-time
10) That Judaism is not a madeup variant of Canaanite paganism, itself a descendant of superstitious desert animist beliefs
11) That ancient Christianity was actually Mormonism, even though there is literally zero evidence for this
12) That Mormonism is not a mishmash of American and European Protestant philosophies blended with 19th century frontier superstition and primitive scientific understandings.

Apparently you don't believe in the authenticity of the LDS canon. If the canon reveals the mind and will of God, you have your answers. If not, I don't either.

You have to go through all 12 of those steps to even begin to use the LDS canon. But before then, you would have to go to a 13th step: You must disprove all other religious texts. How do you know for a fact that the Veda are not the truth? What about the Quaran? What about only the Hebrew Bible? How do you know that Coptic Christianity is not the true Christianity? There are tens of thousands of sacred texts out there outside of the LDS canon. How do you know that they are not the truth? And how do you know that the other branches of Mormonism are untrue? Why are the Nelson Brighamites the correct Mormonism? Your points here are nothing but concentric circles of unanswered questions and absurd assumptions.

[MG 2.0]

Apparently you don't believe in the authenticity of the LDS canon. If the canon reveals the mind and will of God, you have your answers. If not, I don't either.

Regards,
MG

I prayed about Book of the Law of the Lord.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_t ... f_the_Lord

Was it while taking psychedelics? If so, what was the answer you received in that altered state of consciousness? If you received an answer, do you believe that it was from God?

The answers to these questions would dictate what you should do and what you should consider being the truth. On the other hand, if you think you might have been deceived you would want to rethink things.

I think it's important that we ALL be VERY careful in regards to spiritually related experiences. Yes, I've seen the tears in people, other than LDS, as they share their feelings about God and truth, etc. I just hope that they are using their full mind AND their heart in making the decisions that they do after having experiences that seem to be spiritually driven.

I'm personally a bit skeptical about relying on emotion only. Too many mistakes have been made doing so in my observations. I think the Spirit of God and/or the Holy Ghost speaks to our mind and our heart. So if you've sincerely prayed about and believe that you've received an undeniable witness to the truth of the Book of the Law of the Lord, then that is your path. How can someone else sway you from what you know to be true?

Best wishes as you practice your faith in the Strangite sect of Christianity if that is what you decide to do.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Apparently you don't believe in the authenticity of the LDS canon. If the canon reveals the mind and will of God, you have your answers. If not, I don't either.

You have to go through all 12 of those steps to even begin to use the LDS canon. But before then, you would have to go to a 13th step: You must disprove all other religious texts. How do you know for a fact that the Veda are not the truth? What about the Quaran? What about only the Hebrew Bible? How do you know that Coptic Christianity is not the true Christianity? There are tens of thousands of sacred texts out there outside of the LDS canon. How do you know that they are not the truth? And how do you know that the other branches of Mormonism are untrue? Why are the Nelson Brighamites the correct Mormonism? Your points here are nothing but concentric circles of unanswered questions and absurd assumptions.

As you've had to buck up against these realities and issues, where have you come out in the wash? Have you rejected all religious systems of belief or were you able to settle on one that met your needs and fulfilled your search for truth?

Do you think that there is an ultimate Truth that is obtainable?

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

...really your belief is just emotion.

It ain't quite that simple Alphus. Is it for you?

And again, where did you end up? Everything is up for grabs? Everything is created by the mind of man? Where are you?

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

I think it's important that we ALL be VERY careful in regards to spiritually related experiences. Yes, I've seen the tears in people, other than LDS, as they share their feelings about God and truth, etc. I just hope that they are using their full mind AND their heart in making the decisions that they do after having experiences that seem to be spiritually driven.

I'm personally a bit skeptical about relying on emotion only. Too many mistakes have been made doing so in my observations.

Other than LDS? That is too funny. What a blind spot you have.

[Alphus and Omegus]

...really your belief is just emotion.

It ain't quite that simple Alphus. Is it for you?

And again, where did you end up? Everything is up for grabs? Everything is created by the mind of man? Where are you?

Regards,
MG

Why do you care what other people believe? Why do you need to be so relative in your thinking? What bearing does it have on your own thoughts? What's wrong with thinking humans aren't up to the task of knowing the origin of the universe?

Why do you crave pretend certainty so much? Have you disproved all other religions beyond Nelsonite Brighamism? And then after you disprove all extant religions, you'll have to disprove all past religions. Because how do you know that Zeus is not the real god? Maybe Dagon is. Or is it Yaldabaoth? What about Tlaloc?

And as for "up for grabs," you should realize that philosophy moved beyond this simplistic justification for morality thousands of years ago. I recommend reading up about Divine Command Theory to understand that if there are such things as "moral absolutes," then it means that if God exists, she is not all-powerful.

Lots of people going all the way back to a number of pre-Socratic philosophers, Aristotle, and number of ancient Stoics and Epicureans have also dispatched with ludicrous belief that morality must of necessity come from beliefs in invisible sky beings.