Eternals and Mormonism

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
Analytics
Elder
Posts: 350
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:11 pm

Eternals and Mormonism

Post by Analytics »

I saw Eternals last night. If you aren't familiar with the characters from the comic books, spoiler alert!

In the Marvel universe, Gods are called Celestials. Until now, the one that played the biggest role in the MCU was Star Lord's/Peter Quill's father Ego, played by Kurt Russell. In Eternals, we get a better look at the Celestials and their relationship to humanity.

Basically, from the very start of the multiverse, there has been a battle raging between the (supposedly) righteous celestials and the evil deviants. Around 5,000 B.C. some deviants found their way to earth and started killing everybody, so in His righteous benevolence, the Celestial Arishem sent a band of ten "eternals" to earth to protect people from the deviants. The eternals are basically demigods and more likely than not, are the real-world basis for every ancient superhero in every ancient legend that survives until today.

The big plot twist is that gestating in the center of the earth, there is an embryo of a new celestial. To be born, this celestial needs to be on a planet that is overpopulated with intelligent life. When the celestial is born, he kills all life on the planet and consumes their energy. The eternals realize that their real mission isn't to help humanity flourish. Rather, it is to foster the earth overpopulating so that a new celestial can be born through killing everyone. When they figure this out, some of the eternals meekly decide to follow the Celestial Arishem in bringing to pass His work and His glory and help a new Celestial be born. Some of the others decide that they don't like the celestials' eternal plan and decide to rebel and try to save humanity.

That brings me back to my original question. Is any of this inspired by Mormonism, or is the idea of Gods called Celestials who have a plan to propagate new Gods just a coincidence? It appears these characters were created by the comic book writer Jack Kirby. Kirby was Jewish and was born in New York City in 1917, and lived there until he moved to Los Angeles in 1969. In 1976, he created the comic book characters Celestials and Eternals.

Was he exposed to Mormonism in L.A.? Is Mormonism his original inspiration for propagating Gods of questionable moral rectitude?
User avatar
Gadianton
God
Posts: 3842
Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2020 11:56 pm
Location: Elsewhere

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by Gadianton »

Crazy, that is very close to church doctrine. Instead of killing everyone to use their energy, the vast majority are damned as a way to distinguish the exalted. Metaphorically, it's very similar. A bunch of nobodies to contrast with the few somebodies.

A few weeks ago I watched Midsommar on Amazon Prime, and that is one of the most Mormon movies I've ever seen. Much closer to home than "Witnesses", for instance. It's about a guy who builds a relationship of trust with a group of friends, and specifically with a girl who had suffered the tragic loss of her family, and "brings them to church", so to speak. You can see the familiar dynamic between true believers of the faith and the "investigators", the way they are made to feel special, the attention to the 'new convert', yet it's all part of a holistic process where the religious movement stays alive for its own sake by rituals and roles.
User avatar
Doctor Scratch
B.H. Roberts Chair of Mopologetic Studies
Posts: 1161
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:24 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by Doctor Scratch »

Gadianton wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:53 pm
Crazy, that is very close to church doctrine. Instead of killing everyone to use their energy, the vast majority are damned as a way to distinguish the exalted. Metaphorically, it's very similar. A bunch of nobodies to contrast with the few somebodies.

A few weeks ago I watched Midsommar on Amazon Prime, and that is one of the most Mormon movies I've ever seen. Much closer to home than "Witnesses", for instance. It's about a guy who builds a relationship of trust with a group of friends, and specifically with a girl who had suffered the tragic loss of her family, and "brings them to church", so to speak. You can see the familiar dynamic between true believers of the faith and the "investigators", the way they are made to feel special, the attention to the 'new convert', yet it's all part of a holistic process where the religious movement stays alive for its own sake by rituals and roles.
I was really struck by how “Mormon-y” Midsommar was, and I agree with you that it taps into Mormon themes in a way that the Mopologists could never dream of. The film is chock-full of creepy old white people who are keeping strange secrets, which really sums up the “appeal” of Mormonism in the materialist sense, I guess. They really want “Added Upon,” but if they can have this in the meantime, that’s just fine. Of course, John Dehlin would be in the bear suit at the end.
"If, while hoping that everybody else will be honest and so forth, I can personally prosper through unethical and immoral acts without being detected and without risk, why should I not?." --Daniel Peterson, 6/4/14
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by Moksha »

Sounds a bit like the plot for the German video game Enderal.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
doubtingthomas
God
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by doubtingthomas »

Analytics wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:27 pm

That brings me back to my original question. Is any of this inspired by Mormonism, or is the idea of Gods called Celestials who have a plan to propagate new Gods just a coincidence? It appears these characters were created by the comic book writer Jack Kirby.
I have no idea, but Kirby does like to get inspiration from Christian theology. For example, Marvel's most powerful character is omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt1MS1YmxyY
https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/One-Abov ... ultiverse)
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 8979
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

I wonder why the Celestials and Eternals just stood by when Ego was going to gobble up the Earth, or whatever it was that he was doing. He would’ve killed that Celestial that was incubating in the core. I haven’t seen the movie since I’ve kind of lost interest in the MCU (minus Loki - I loved the 80’s Simon Stanlenhag look and story arc - who doesn’t love multiverse fiction?), but it might be worth watching when it comes to D+.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
User avatar
DrStakhanovite
Elder
Posts: 336
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:55 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by DrStakhanovite »

I think Jack Kirby was just drawing on themes already present in the genre of science fiction to create a sense of awe by using scale. Much like how our bodies host all sorts of microscopic organisms where untold generations of tiny living creatures live and die, I saw Eternals portraying earth not so much as a planet, but as an organism where the entirety of human civilization amounts to nothing more than a bacteria that was purposefully cultured.

Humans as a disposable byproduct of birthing a new being doesn’t really fit Mormonism in my opinion, because neither Heavenly Father nor Satan use humans in that fashion; the mortal probation is about developing individual intelligent spirit-beings into their next step up the ladder, not collectively using than disposing every single person for some other instrumental reason.
Image
lemuel
Nursery
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:05 am

Re: Eternals and Mormonism

Post by lemuel »

Analytics wrote:
Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:27 pm
I saw Eternals last night. If you aren't familiar with the characters from the comic books, spoiler alert!

In the Marvel universe, Gods are called Celestials. Until now, the one that played the biggest role in the MCU was Star Lord's/Peter Quill's father Ego, played by Kurt Russell. In Eternals, we get a better look at the Celestials and their relationship to humanity.

Basically, from the very start of the multiverse, there has been a battle raging between the (supposedly) righteous celestials and the evil deviants. Around 5,000 B.C. some deviants found their way to earth and started killing everybody, so in His righteous benevolence, the Celestial Arishem sent a band of ten "eternals" to earth to protect people from the deviants. The eternals are basically demigods and more likely than not, are the real-world basis for every ancient superhero in every ancient legend that survives until today.

The big plot twist is that gestating in the center of the earth, there is an embryo of a new celestial. To be born, this celestial needs to be on a planet that is overpopulated with intelligent life. When the celestial is born, he kills all life on the planet and consumes their energy. The eternals realize that their real mission isn't to help humanity flourish. Rather, it is to foster the earth overpopulating so that a new celestial can be born through killing everyone. When they figure this out, some of the eternals meekly decide to follow the Celestial Arishem in bringing to pass His work and His glory and help a new Celestial be born. Some of the others decide that they don't like the celestials' eternal plan and decide to rebel and try to save humanity.

That brings me back to my original question. Is any of this inspired by Mormonism, or is the idea of Gods called Celestials who have a plan to propagate new Gods just a coincidence? It appears these characters were created by the comic book writer Jack Kirby. Kirby was Jewish and was born in New York City in 1917, and lived there until he moved to Los Angeles in 1969. In 1976, he created the comic book characters Celestials and Eternals.

Was he exposed to Mormonism in L.A.? Is Mormonism his original inspiration for propagating Gods of questionable moral rectitude?
Add to this the notion that Thanos is a type of Jesus and Ultron is a type of Enoch and see where it takes you.
Post Reply