New Project Shows Church Finance Corruption

[MG 2.0]

WaterAid got its start right here in good ol’ Utah, if I’m not mistaken.

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You’re right. The Utah connection is the church allocating humanitarian funds to WaterAid. My mistake.

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My wife and I have been giving monthly donations to WaterAid for a few years. We love this charity and the good that it does throughout the world.

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Not sure. It’s been a number of years now that we’ve participated in this charity. I asked my wife and she doesn’t remember the particulars as to how we found out about it.

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For some reason I mixed this charity up with some other Utah based charity we had read about years ago. My bad.

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We get a statement from WaterAid every month.

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That’s the way charities work. Auto pay and then a statement.

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If you want to receive a monthly statement you may want to contact WaterAid.

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My information has been taken off the receipt for privacy reasons. Hope this helps.

MG 2.0. I don't care what charities you do or don't contribute to. Really, I don't. I do find your convoluted narrative entertaining. Thank you for posting the totally not-made-up nor edited receipt from WaterAid to cap it all off.

Whew! We’re done. Thanks.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

MG 2.0. I don't care what charities you do or don't contribute to. Really, I don't. I do find your convoluted narrative entertaining. Thank you for posting the totally not-made-up nor edited receipt from WaterAid to cap it all off.

Convoluted is one word for it. Wow. And still, no response when you asked them to explain their accusation:

You're kidding, I've not asked for any of this. I don't care about any of your claims to intellect, righteousness, or charity, whether real or imagined. It's the discontinuity of your narrative I find interesting.

My only concrete request was for you to back up your charge that I continuously 'dis' the LDS Church's humanitarian efforts to the point that it's sickening. Please refer to the following exchange.

Your continued dissing of the church and its humanitarian efforts and ‘hoarding’ are getting old.

Even sickening.

Find something better to do.

But you won’t.

Regards,
MG

MG: Show me where I'm continuously dissing the humanitarian efforts of the church. Quotes and links, if you would.

But, so far, nothing from you.

Quite an accusation to not back up, but I'm getting the feeling that doing stuff like that is this poster's MO.

[MG 2.0]

MG 2.0. I don't care what charities you do or don't contribute to. Really, I don't. I do find your convoluted narrative entertaining. Thank you for posting the totally not-made-up nor edited receipt from WaterAid to cap it all off.

Convoluted is one word for it. Wow. And still, no response when you asked them to explain their accusation:

You're kidding, I've not asked for any of this. I don't care about any of your claims to intellect, righteousness, or charity, whether real or imagined. It's the discontinuity of your narrative I find interesting.

My only concrete request was for you to back up your charge that I continuously 'dis' the LDS Church's humanitarian efforts to the point that it's sickening. Please refer to the following exchange.




But, so far, nothing from you.

Quite an accusation to not back up, but I'm getting the feeling that doing stuff like that is this poster's MO.

Go back and read. That was worked out.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

Convoluted is one word for it. Wow. And still, no response when you asked them to explain their accusation:


Quite an accusation to not back up, but I'm getting the feeling that doing stuff like that is this poster's MO.

Go back and read. That was worked out.

Regards,
MG

You tried hard to change the subject, but no, it wasn’t.

[MG 2.0]

Go back and read. That was worked out.

Regards,
MG

You tried hard to change the subject, but no, it wasn’t.

Read the posts after that.

Regards,
MG

[Marcus]

You tried hard to change the subject, but no, it wasn’t.

Read the posts after that.

Regards,
MG

you have balls, I’ll give you that. No shame, but balls.

[MG 2.0]

Read the posts after that.

Regards,
MG

you have balls, I’ll give you that. No shame, but balls.

You still don’t get it.

Whatever.

Regards,
MG

[Dr Moore]

It will be interesting to see how much social pressure builds up on this issue.

The younger generation is far more sensitive to social injustice. And it is not even a question, for the rising generation, that it is social injustice for any church to use $180 billion in cash investments for nothing but an ongoing pursuit of accumulating more money.

Especially when (a) that money is kept hidden from members, and (b) there is absolutely no stated goal or purpose for the money. Delaying significantly enhanced transparency and an outline for utilizing all that cash, at this point, is tantamount to writing off the younger generation entirely.

The status quo with church wealth is just as untenable a path forward as the "dominant narrative" on church history. Something has to change. I hope it does, because the church can potentially drive a positive impact to many, many more human lives with that money than it has ever done with the gospel.

[MG 2.0]

It will be interesting to see how much social pressure builds up on this issue.

The younger generation is far more sensitive to social injustice. And it is not even a question, for the rising generation, that it is social injustice for any church to use $180 billion in cash investments for nothing but an ongoing pursuit of accumulating more money.

Especially when (a) that money is kept hidden from members, and (b) there is absolutely no stated goal or purpose for the money. Delaying significantly enhanced transparency and an outline for utilizing all that cash, at this point, is tantamount to writing off the younger generation entirely.

The status quo with church wealth is just as untenable a path forward as the "dominant narrative" on church history. Something has to change. I hope it does, because the church can potentially drive a positive impact to many, many more human lives with that money than it has ever done with the gospel.

An excellent presentation, although I think their estimates of church wealth may be low.

According to this well researched website, the church has between USD300 and USD400 in commercial and agricultural real estate.
http://www.bidstrup.com/ldsfinances.htm

60% of church membership is outside of the United States. Hypothetically speaking, if one was to determine whether or not the majority of the church, which exists outside of the U.S., could maintain themselves financially over the long haul without significant financial reserves is literally the billion(s) dollar question.

Europe, including the UK is 3% of church membership. South and Central America are over 30%. So you would have an interesting mix of economic structures holding up the church. As it is, what happens within the 40% of the church that consists of members in the U.S. matters. The financial reserves then become of grater importance. At some point we may see those reserves becoming integral to the overall temporal health of the church.

We tend to focus on the 40% rather than the 60%. Personally, I’m comfortable with more financial reserves than less in an international church which sees the U.S. as less than half of its membership. And that trend is more than likely to continue.

Regards,
MG

Are you folks considering that there may be valid reasons for the church to have large amounts of financial resources on hand? That doesn’t seem to be on your radar of possibility.

Regards,
MG

[Tator]

Are you folks considering that there may be valid reasons for the church to have large amounts of financial resources on hand? That doesn’t seem to be on your radar of possibility.

Regards,
MG

I remember as a kid leaders were saying the church was buying and storing up materials to build the new temple after the second coming. Expensive marble, carpets, stone, exotic wood, furniture, gold, silver, etc., and all the best of the best. Later years in seminary, 1960s, I was told that it was all purchased and ready to build and that illustrated how close we are to second coming.

To me it illustrates just how impotent the Mormon god is. The Mormon god can't even save his own creations he puts that burden on the created with temple rituals, pay, pray and obey. The created pays the price for everything and we need to pay more just for the love of money. Peak Ensign needs to open a dental clinic so they can pull more fillings to pay for the new temple that has been rumored to be already purchased.

MG your exalted 15 CEOs in SLC are in it for the love of money not a Christ centered church for feeding the hungry or taking care of the poor and needy. Open wide and donate your fillings.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

What's the possibility of that being on your radar?