Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

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Marcus
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Marcus »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:59 pm
Marcus wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 3:26 pm

So, based on your say so ('l was in the middle'), at least half the lds bishops were unlimited in what they could spend, and at least half spent more than you, and were more generous.

I haven't been reading your posts for long, but given the situation we now see, and what I read of your comments, I am not inclined to believe this. Maybe you were a one-off whose spending was unlimited, but without some hard evidence, believing half of lds bishops were generous like you and also were unlimited in their spending (the implication of you being in the middle) is not a credible argument. If you have better evidence than your single anecdote, please post it.
Believe what you want. I no longer consider myself a really true believer.

There were no cheapo bishops in my stake. We were repeatedly told to be more generous than our natural inclinations to tell people to buck it up. And, there were no limits on my spending. None ever stated. None ever implied. And not limited to members.

Perhaps mine was an atypical ward. Five million dollar homes and trailer parks. Hookers on the street.
Perhaps??
YB wrote: We were repeatedly told to be more generous than our natural inclinations to tell people to buck it up. And, there were no limits on my spending. None ever stated. None ever implied. And not limited to members....
Now we are getting somewhere. If you and others were "repeatedly told," then there must be some evidence or documentation. No doxxing, of course, but can you post these communications, and, if not who, at least what ecclesiastical level they came from?
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Bought Yahoo
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Bought Yahoo »

Oh sure. Frickin moron. Go dialogue with Bill Reel/Atlantic Mike. Everybody here knows who I am in real life.
Marcus
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Marcus »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 4:32 pm
Oh sure. Frickin moron. Go dialogue with Bill Reel/Atlantic Mike. Everybody here knows who I am in real life.
:lol: I don't. And dialogue with a troll? I think that's anatomically impossible.

But, you've given nothing to support your anecdote except name calling when asked for details, so..... back to the OP.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Philo Sofee »

Yahoo Bought
When I was a bishop I had practically unlimited access to money to support the poor. I provided support for members and nonmembers alike. I served as the Transient Bishop for two years -- a stake wide calling. Lots of drug addicts and homeless people coming through my stake. I provided support and put them up in apartments. I remember providing support for a former Primary President's counselor of mine who became a meth addict and lost her children to her ex husband. She was living in her car turning tricks.
Sounds to me like they need to reinstall good men like you and make sure more like you are available for service! Good on ya!
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Kishkumen
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Kishkumen »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:48 pm
When I was a bishop I had practically unlimited access to money to support the poor. I provided support for members and nonmembers alike. I served as the Transient Bishop for two years -- a stake wide calling. Lots of drug addicts and homeless people coming through my stake. I provided support and put them up in apartments. I remember providing support for a former Primary President's counselor of mine who became a meth addict and lost her children to her ex husband. She was living in her car turning tricks.

On on occasion, a member of the County Board of Supervisors called me directly and asked me to provide support for two married ex-CHP officers who were not members of the Church but who had cashed out their pensions for a losing speculative investment. I did it.

Of course, I didn't go crazy and give what was asked merely because it was asked. And I tried to steer them first to the bishop's storehouse. About 50% of the time, I was told that the applicant declined to go to the storehouse to pick up food and so I didn't provide money for food.

And I, as a personal matter, never provided money to make a mortgage payment. Some of those requests were crazy -- $8000 on an underwater home. Instead, I would provide money to pay what would be a reasonable rent. Some of the people my ward supported were on support for the entire time of my calling -- seven years. And, some of them I would consider to be able-bodied. They just didn't want to work.

But I would provide advice. I would advise members to walk away from their homes if the mortgage was higher than its value. ("My wife won't accept living in a lesser home.") I would advise members to surrender their cars to the bank. ("I don't want the hit to my credit.") I would advise young married couples to go first to their parents for support.

I bought cars. I spend several thousand dollars for a car for a non-member coming out of prison who was married to a member. I paid for new dentures. I paid for medical procedures. In addition to the normal stuff -- food and rent.

I had the occasion to review the contribution patterns of other bishops, and saw that one bishop paid $40K in one year to one family, which family later turned against the Church.

The amount of wealth the church has had nothing to do with what I could spend.

And nobody ever questioned my expenditures. Nor did any training session I ever had with the stake president give me any "guidelines." I do recall, however, that the Church had some sort of review process for medical procedures, requiring the bishop to access public funds after a certain amount was spent. I never ran up against that limit.

That's a wonderful account, BY. Thank you for sharing it. This is quite different from the experience I had in downtown Philadelphia. Maybe mine was anomalous. The stake presidency was pressuring the bishop to be less generous and then replaced him.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
BeNotDeceived
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by BeNotDeceived »

The 'church's' hundreds of billions have absolutely nothing to do with how money is spent at the ward and stake levels as the 'church' still acts and behaves as if it needs to penny pinch when it comes to providing the basic necessities for ward and stake buildings, furniture, supplies, equipment, repairs, etc. I know Bishops who have had to scratch and claw for every penny to help members who had been laid off, children with no health insurance, funding the scouts, YM, YW and other auxiliaries to the point where fundraisers had to pay for their programs for the year, etc. I know one Bishop who was denied funds to fix a light out in the parking lot. I know missionaries who were electrocuted in a thunderstorm after going on top of their apartment roof to collect fresh rain water to drink. I know missionaries who were killed from hypoxia thanks to an aging, faulty water heater in their apartment the MP knew needed to be replaced but had been denied funds to fix it (all while he was living quite comfortably at church expense). I know missionaries serving at their own expense in the middle of the Wyoming wilderness at 6th Crossing who have to travel 90 miles one way for church since there is no meetinghouse for them while a glitzy mall sits in downtown SLC built with billions in 'sacred funds'. Elder Neil A Andersen went to Zimbabwe not too long ago and told their president we couldn't help with the construction of clean water wells because we were not a rich people. And I used to think the Catholic church was the great and abominable religion.
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Bought Yahoo
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Bought Yahoo »

I didn't believe in fund raising either.
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Moksha
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Moksha »

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:48 pm
I paid for new dentures.
May that never come back to bite you
I paid for medical procedures. In addition to the normal stuff -- food and rent.
You were on the positive end of the Bishop roulette. I've read of some very uncaring bishops. I think that more or less correlates with the bishop's degree of political conservatism: The more conservative of a bishop, the less they exhibit Christian caring and love. However, if the goal is to grow the Ensign Peak Investment Fund then you want solidly conservative bishops.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
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Bought Yahoo
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Bought Yahoo »

I've read that the more conservative the bishop the more willing he is to spend with abandon.

I have been under psychiatric care. I don't like my doc much. One day I came to his office dressed in nothing but Saran Wrap. He said, "Oh Mr. Yahoo, I see your nuts."
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Morley
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Re: Dialogue article: letter to Bishops

Post by Morley »

Yahoo Bought

When I was a bishop I had practically unlimited access to money to support the poor. I provided support for members and nonmembers alike. I served as the Transient Bishop for two years -- a stake wide calling. Lots of drug addicts and homeless people coming through my stake. I provided support and put them up in apartments. I remember providing support for a former Primary President's counselor of mine who became a meth addict and lost her children to her ex husband. She was living in her car turning tricks.
Like Philo, I'm extremely happy to read both this and Holland's directive.

I'm glad that some folks might to be doing something, despite the attitude that leads to hoarded assets.


....

Bought Yahoo wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:49 am
I have been under psychiatric care. I don't like my doc much. One day I came to his office dressed in nothing but Saran Wrap. He said, "Oh Mr. Yahoo, I see your nuts."
Now, there's an image I didn't need.
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