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DCP wrote:We were less divided then, and an American icon — the young, glamorous President of the United States — had been stricken down by a murderer. We were deep in sorrow across party lines and across the nation. Or so it seemed to me then.

DCP wrote: From Lincoln's 2nd Inaugural address: “With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation’s wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.”

To say the least of it, this is a masterful piece of English prose. But it’s far more than that, of course. And I cannot imagine its like today. The deeply religious character of what Lincoln had to say, his deep theological reflection, is impossible to imagine in a contemporary American president — and that fact is profoundly sad.

“He [Lincoln] once spoke of how not having any kind of noticeable religious profile had levied what he called a tax on his popularity with the voters,” says Allen Guelzo, a professor of Civil War-era studies at Gettysburg College and author of Abraham Lincoln: Redeemer President. “It was something that he was aware of, something he tried to cope with, and yet he wouldn’t go the distance of trying to pretend that he was something that he wasn’t.”

Joe Biden wrote:"I'm not trying to proselytize, I'm not trying to convince you to share my religious views. But for me it's important because it gives me some reason to have hope and purpose," Biden shared earlier this year during a CNN town hall with a grieving pastor who'd lost his wife during the Charleston shooting, explaining that he'd promised his own dying son that he would continue to stay engaged and not retreat into himself.

Michael Hoggan wrote:We have lost much in our national discourse and leadership.

Sam l'e peew wrote:In the poll persons were asked how willing they were to sacrifice their life for various levels of freedom guaranteed to their children – ranging from absolute freedom to absolute enslavement. I was shocked that more than 50% of the respondents would rather allow their children to go into enslavement if in doing so, they lived (For societal context, this was in the early 1980s - most of the respondents were Boomers).

peredehuit wrote:Sadly my formal education never taught the beauty of Lincoln's addresses. I had to find out about them on my own. Our schools need serious help

Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:14 pm

DCP must have missed this part of his quote:

Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered

DCP's lament is the same as the QAnon acolyte and retired general Michael Flynn who recently called for an America united under Christ.

There is no such thing as unity under Christ, and that's because more often then not, belief in Christ is really about belief in a divine endorsement of one's own particular concerns. Using Jesus to bait secularists is not about unity, but even if it were, it is only a convenient platitude because once that unity comes, the wars then happen over minor theological differences. And that's because theological beliefs are merely symbolic; they map to underlying economic concerns that are the real cause of tension. The problem is, the entire premise of religious faith is to not see past the superficiality of one's beliefs, but revel in them -- as DCP and retired general Michael Flynn do.

I do think there are symbolic mappings in secularist thought also, but at least in principle, we know that's a bad thing and something to avoid and look deeper and be critical of our own ideas, whereas that self-reflection is forbidden out of principle for the great men of devout faith.

Gadianton wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 19, 2021 8:14 pm

DCP must have missed this part of his quote:

Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God’s assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men’s faces but let us judge not that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered

DCP's lament is the same as the QAnon acolyte and retired general Michael Flynn who recently called for an America united under Christ.

There is no such thing as unity under Christ, and that's because more often then not, belief in Christ is really about belief in a divine endorsement of one's own particular concerns. Using Jesus to bait secularists is not about unity, but even if it were, it is only a convenient platitude because once that unity comes, the wars then happen over minor theological differences. And that's because theological beliefs are merely symbolic; they map to underlying economic concerns that are the real cause of tension. The problem is, the entire premise of religious faith is to not see past the superficiality of one's beliefs, but revel in them -- as DCP and retired general Michael Flynn do.

I do think there are symbolic mappings in secularist thought also, but at least in principle, we know that's a bad thing and something to avoid and look deeper and be critical of our own ideas, whereas that self-reflection is forbidden out of principle for the great men of devout faith.

U.S. Grant wrote: Where the citizen is sovereign and the official the servant, where no power is exercised except by the will of the people, it is important that the sovereign — the people — should possess intelligence. The free school is the promoter of that intelligence which is to preserve us as a free nation. If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's, but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition, and ignorance on the other.

Now in this centennial year of our national existence, I believe it a good time to begin the work of strengthening the foundation of the house commenced by our patriotic forefathers one hundred years ago, at Concord and Lexington.

Let us all labor to add all needful guarantees for the more perfect security of free thought, free speech, and free press, pure morals, unfettered religious sentiments, and of equal rights and privileges to all men, irrespective of nationality, color, or religion. Encourage free schools, and resolve that not one dollar of money appropriated to their support, no matter how raised, shall be appropriated to the support of any sectarian school.

Resolve that the State or Nation, or both combined, shall furnish to every child growing up in the land, the means of acquiring a good common-school education, unmixed with sectarian, pagan, or atheistic tenets. Leave the matter of religion to the family altar, the church, and the private school supported entirely by private contributions. Keep the church and state forever separate. With these safeguards, I believe the battles which created the Army of the Tennessee will not have been fought in vain.