Chris Heimerdinger responds to critics

[Gadianton]

One thing I’ve found in looking at some more studies is that there are quite a few in vitro studies that have shown promise for using ivermectin to treat a myriad of viral infections (including HIV). It makes absolute sense that doctors/researches would have been looking to have it used as a treatment.

Absolutely. Biochemistry is insanely complicated. Just because Ivermectin is an anti-parasitic drug doesn't mean it can't help with viruses. There's no specific intuition to believe that it can help, but researchers have these gigantic chemical libraries and can throw the whole arsenal of human created compounds at anything they want in a petri dish at a push of a button to see what sticks. Of foremost interest are chemicals that are widely available and known to be safe. By dumb luck, Ivermectin might help. But back when I was looking at studies on different therapeutics, if you were going to put money on a chemical that looked promising by the method of pure trial and error, then I'd go with vitamin D over Ivermectin.

[canpakes]

Here is a study out of mexico that says a regimen that includes ivermectin worked: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578014/ Pretty culty people involved.

Your same linked source names this particular study as one within an assessment of a number of similar studies. The results, overall, don’t hold up.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34318930/

Doc Steuss upstream also reinforces the point that your linked study regards a regimen that included ivermectin amongst other solutions, as opposed to being a study that focused on it.

However, you do not need to take it if you are sick of course. Do you think it should be outlawed as a treatment? And if so, why? It has been proven safe and effective in treating river blindness, why not other uses if there is informed consent?

Good question. Is it the responsibility of any particular doctor or hospital to offer particular treatments at the request of any one patient?

Let physicians prescribe it after careful consideration and keep politics out of it.

The medical community must continually rerun this ivermectin debate because of politics.

[Moksha]

With COVID cases going up in red states, you would imagine that functioning conservatives would put their thought processes in motion and try using Slim Whitman's Indian Love Call song against the virus. I could see the State Health official at Sic et Non trying this sonic remedy together with priesthood-led prayer.

[Res Ipsa]

With COVID cases going up in red states, you would imagine that functioning conservatives would put their thought processes in motion and try using Slim Whitman's Indian Love Call song against the virus. I could see the State Health official at Sic et Non trying this sonic remedy together with priesthood-led prayer.

You made Nelson Eddy cry, oh flightless one.

[Bought Yahoo]

Once again, hospitals are free all around the US today to use these avant garde treatments. You could get horse medicine today. But, a physician must write the prescription. And physicians do not work for hospitals. There is a rare exception for hospitalists. But even ER docs don't work for hospitals.

You people seem to think that the hospitals are to blame.

It's a common misconception. The first firm I worked for did lots of med mal defense. Most firms who did that work specialized in defending either nurses, who are employed by hospitals, and doctors, who aren't. I had no idea before that about how it worked.

Nurses can't write script without a doctor's supervision. Nor can other hospital personnel. Horse medicine or mayonnaise is available for injection today in a hospital. Just need a doc to say so.

[Moksha]

Horse medicine or mayonnaise is available for injection today in a hospital. Just need a doc to say so.

Would also need some mayonnaise praise from Trump and that would require a hefty contribution from Hellmann's. People are not willing to mainline mayo without that Trump bump. Being a stupid idea by itself is not sufficient.

[Fence Sitter]

Nurses can't write script without a doctor's supervision. Nor can other hospital personnel. Horse medicine or mayonnaise is available for injection today in a hospital. Just need a doc to say so.

You do understand that your objection is irrelevant to most of the discussion?
by the way, I rented a condo last year for a couple of months from a doctor who was employed by a hospital.

[Dr Exiled]

Here is a study out of mexico that says a regimen that includes ivermectin worked: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33578014/ Pretty culty people involved.

Your same linked source names this particular study as one within an assessment of a number of similar studies. The results, overall, don’t hold up.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34318930/

Doc Steuss upstream also reinforces the point that your linked study regards a regimen that included ivermectin amongst other solutions, as opposed to being a study that focused on it.

However, you do not need to take it if you are sick of course. Do you think it should be outlawed as a treatment? And if so, why? It has been proven safe and effective in treating river blindness, why not other uses if there is informed consent?

Good question. Is it the responsibility of any particular doctor or hospital to offer particular treatments at the request of any one patient?

Let physicians prescribe it after careful consideration and keep politics out of it.

The medical community must continually rerun this ivermectin debate because of politics.

I don't think the jury is in on ivermectin yet. Here is another meta-analysis on ivermectin studies showing that it is effective. This one focused on ivermectin. https://journals.lww.com/americantherap ... _of.7.aspx

Here is a follow-up to this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8415512/

Here is one out of iran where they test subjects were given a single ivermectin dose and it showed promise: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8101859/

My point all along has been to allow the doctor to prescribe whatever cocktail of off label drugs the doctor deems worth the risk, whether it be ivermectin, HCQ, fluvoxomine, etc. This is how doctors have practiced medicine for a long time when confronted with patients expressing various symptoms. Something changed with covid for some reason as outlined in this article: https://www.realclearinvestigations.com ... 08045.html

To answer your question, obviously, doctors are the experts, not the patients. Let's let the docs do their thing as long as the patient consents after being informed.

[Bought Yahoo]

Nurses can't write script without a doctor's supervision. Nor can other hospital personnel. Horse medicine or mayonnaise is available for injection today in a hospital. Just need a doc to say so.

You do understand that your objection is irrelevant to most of the discussion?
by the way, I rented a condo last year for a couple of months from a doctor who was employed by a hospital.

And my point is that these drugs are all freely available for therapeutic use. The problem is there are very few doctors willing to use them.

[¥akaSteelhead]

The anecdotal evidence of the number of people in this country self medicating with horse dewormer then ending up in the ICU and or dead, would seem to contraindicate any study saying it is useful

Somebody ought to do a meta analysis derived from the HCA reddit.