The substantial cost of theistic morality

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doubtingthomas
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by doubtingthomas »

Chap wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 pm
A lot of atheist communists have in the past had no problem at all in risking their lives in battle.
References please. Atheists who believe in the supernatural don't count.
doubtingthomas
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by doubtingthomas »

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huckelberry
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by huckelberry »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:18 pm
"Study: World War II Soldiers Relied on Prayer, Not Returning Home to Loved Ones, for Motivation"
https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/20 ... motivation
Lets see, a person has lots of bullets coming at them and the fellow beside him has a big hole blown in their head do they think, I look forward to returning home so I better watch out or do they , OMG give me strength!

I think the second is more likely in the moment. It might be close to hard wired. After it is over thinking of home likely returns.
Chap
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by Chap »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:16 pm
Chap wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 pm
A lot of atheist communists have in the past had no problem at all in risking their lives in battle.
References please. Atheists who believe in the supernatural don't count.
Is this a joke?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
doubtingthomas
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by doubtingthomas »

Chap wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:50 pm

Is this a joke?
Some atheists do believe in supernatural powers, "energies", and reincarnation.
Chap
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by Chap »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 3:49 am
Chap wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 10:50 pm

Is this a joke?
Some atheists do believe in supernatural powers, "energies", and reincarnation.
Uh-huh. So if I produce a battle-hardened atheist, I'm going to have to prove to you somehow that deep inside he did not have a belief in " supernatural powers, "energies", and reincarnation", or it won't count as evidence for my assertion that
Chap wrote:
Sat Jan 08, 2022 8:11 pm
A lot of atheist communists have in the past had no problem at all in risking their lives in battle.
Well, that goalpost moving also applies to you. Each time a 'religious' person voluntarily risks his life in battle, you have to prove to me that he was not just a person who was (say) brought up as a Catholic and attended church because his family did that kind of thing, but really didn't believe in that stuff. And so on.

So that seems to be the end of the discussion of the question you raised:
doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:37 pm
Would you agree religious people are more likely to enlist in the military and risk their lives?
On your rules, your question can never be given an evidence-based answer. Fine by me.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
Physics Guy
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by Physics Guy »

Claiming that religious people are more likely to risk their lives is not claiming that all religious people risk their lives readily, or that only religious people ever take risks.

And although just going to church every Sunday with the family probably won’t count for much under fire, it seems pretty likely that someone who truly believes they will enter paradise at death would be less reluctant to die. One might doubt that many people really have such strong faith, but the if-then proposition is hardly implausible.

Testing it empirically would indeed be hard, though. High risk of death won’t pass ethics review. And of those who have taken high risks of death under natural circumstances, most are dead.

How much readiness to risk one’s life is a good thing is another question. I wouldn’t want to share a slit trench with a coward who was going to leave me to do all the shooting, but I also wouldn’t want to share it with a fanatic who was going to get us both killed.
drumdude
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by drumdude »

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:45 pm
Claiming that religious people are more likely to risk their lives is not claiming that all religious people risk their lives readily, or that only religious people ever take risks.

And although just going to church every Sunday with the family probably won’t count for much under fire, it seems pretty likely that someone who truly believes they will enter paradise at death would be less reluctant to die. One might doubt that many people really have such strong faith, but the if-then proposition is hardly implausible.

Testing it empirically would indeed be hard, though. High risk of death won’t pass ethics review. And of those who have taken high risks of death under natural circumstances, most are dead.

How much readiness to risk one’s life is a good thing is another question. I wouldn’t want to share a slit trench with a coward who was going to leave me to do all the shooting, but I also wouldn’t want to share it with a fanatic who was going to get us both killed.
If religious apologists are going to claim the religious men in war, then they have to take the 9/11 hijackers as well.

Show me an atheist suicide bomber...
Chap
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Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by Chap »

Physics Guy wrote:
Sun Jan 09, 2022 1:45 pm
How much readiness to risk one’s life is a good thing is another question. I wouldn’t want to share a slit trench with a coward who was going to leave me to do all the shooting, but I also wouldn’t want to share it with a fanatic who was going to get us both killed.
As Patton remarked on 31 June 1944
No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country
.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
drumdude
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Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: The substantial cost of theistic morality

Post by drumdude »

Over in the largely atheist angry ex-Mormon region that I sometimes call the Peterson Obsession Board, one commenter has demanded that he be shown an atheist suicide bomber. (Plainly, he assumes that there are none.) I’m happy to suggest some reading for him:


“Polemical atheist crusader, meet the facts about suicide bombing!”
Which links to:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ction=edit


Dan, the facts didn't come through, could you try again? Also I quite like the ring "Atheist Crusader," it sounds like I'm a member of the Avengers :lol:
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