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Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
by drumdude
Mormons believe in at least 3 eternally existing properties of the universe:
1) Intelligences, of naturally varying intelligence. God did not create these. God is merely the smartest occurring one.
2) Matter and space time. God did not create this either. God is merely the organizer.
3) Moral laws. These exist as real eternal universal platonic ideals, like the idea of the rectangle and circle. God did not create these.
Christian morality is based around the idea that God is the foundation of morality. What is the foundation of Mormon morality? Because it is not God.
It seems like both atheism and Mormonism agree that morality is not grounded in God. Am I misunderstanding Mormon theology?
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:55 pm
by doubtingthomas
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
What is the foundation of Mormon morality?
Some mysterious eternal laws of the universe. Mormonism has a better solution for the problem of evil when compared to other religions. It is probably one of the few things of Mormonism that makes some sense.
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
It seems like both atheism and Mormonism agree that morality is not grounded in God.
It is more like nirvana. God is supposed to be an alien Buddha who achieved full awakening.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:05 pm
by drumdude
doubtingthomas wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:55 pm
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
What is the foundation of Mormon morality?
Some mysterious eternal law of the universe. Mormonism has a better solution for the problem of evil when compared to other religions. It is probably one of the few things of Mormonism that makes some sense.
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
It seems like both atheism and Mormonism agree that morality is not grounded in God.
It is more like nirvana. God is supposed to be an alien Buddha who achieved full awakening.
It's the nirvana of eastern philosophy to have the individual self die and merge with the Universe? This seems at huge odds with Mormonism which is very self-centered. All of life is a test to see which caste the individual should end up in.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:10 pm
by doubtingthomas
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:05 pm
It's the nirvana of eastern philosophy to have the individual self die and merge with the Universe? This seems at huge odds with Mormonism which is very self-centered. All of life is a test to see which caste the individual should end up in.
It seems I don't understand Buddism.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:23 pm
by drumdude
I just find it interesting that DCP never defines or defends Mormon morality, he always falls back on Christian morality.
Are there any latter-day saints, anywhere, that can actually integrate Mormon theology into Christian morality? They all just assume they're identical, when they're clearly not.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:45 pm
by Res Ipsa
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
Mormons believe in at least 3 eternally existing properties of the universe:
1) Intelligences, of naturally varying intelligence. God did not create these. God is merely the smartest occurring one.
2) Matter and space time. God did not create this either. God is merely the organizer.
3) Moral laws. These exist as real eternal universal platonic ideals, like the idea of the rectangle and circle. God did not create these.
Christian morality is based around the idea that God is the foundation of morality. What is the foundation of Mormon morality? Because it is not God.
It seems like both atheism and Mormonism agree that morality is not grounded in God. Am I misunderstanding Mormon theology?
I’d look in that box I kept labeled “mysteries,” but I’m not sure where I stored it.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:04 pm
by drumdude
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:45 pm
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:43 pm
Mormons believe in at least 3 eternally existing properties of the universe:
1) Intelligences, of naturally varying intelligence. God did not create these. God is merely the smartest occurring one.
2) Matter and space time. God did not create this either. God is merely the organizer.
3) Moral laws. These exist as real eternal universal platonic ideals, like the idea of the rectangle and circle. God did not create these.
Christian morality is based around the idea that God is the foundation of morality. What is the foundation of Mormon morality? Because it is not God.
It seems like both atheism and Mormonism agree that morality is not grounded in God. Am I misunderstanding Mormon theology?
I’d look in that box I kept labeled “mysteries,” but I’m not sure where I stored it.
That cop-out was already claimed by Catholics, Mormons can't use it too
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:11 pm
by Res Ipsa
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 11:04 pm
Res Ipsa wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:45 pm
I’d look in that box I kept labeled “mysteries,” but I’m not sure where I stored it.
That cop-out was already claimed by Catholics, Mormons can't use it too
Oh, did I say mysteries? Uh, I meant, uh, Deep Doctrine. Yeah. That’s the ticket!
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:47 am
by huckelberry
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:23 pm
I just find it interesting that DCP never defines or defends
Mormon morality, he always falls back on Christian morality.
Are there any latter-day saints, anywhere, that can actually integrate Mormon theology into Christian morality? They all just assume they're identical, when they're clearly not.
One could try, the order that makes human relationships into love is what makes God God. This proposal could (might?) fit both Mormon thinking and more traditional Christian thinking.
Re: Mormonism’s moral foundation
Posted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 3:12 am
by Alphus and Omegus
drumdude wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:23 pm
I just find it interesting that DCP never defines or defends
Mormon morality, he always falls back on Christian morality.
Are there any latter-day saints, anywhere, that can actually integrate Mormon theology into Christian morality? They all just assume they're identical, when they're clearly not.
They absolutely are not. Mormonism is so philosophically and theologically incoherent though that born-in-the-church members with the skills to at least attempt the task eventually realize it and leave.
The entire notion of God could even theoretically cease to be God (Alma 42) is a total abrogation of Christian moral philosophy and cosmology. But instead of excising that portion (as he did with the original wording about God being the Father and the Son), Smith doubled down on it with the idea of eternal progression and divine reproduction.
At the end of the day, however, it would seem that divine command theory still underlays LDS moral theory. Elohim became a God after living up to Grandpa God's standards. But someone, somewhere, and somewhen had to jump start the "plan of happiness" and it wasn't a bunch of Hindu turtles.
So perhaps that's why Peterson is so wantonly cribbing from real theologians' homework.