Re: Peterson the historical skeptic
Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:45 am
And he regularly (and blindly) introduces ideas from current DCP blog entries. A disciple, at the very least.
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And he regularly (and blindly) introduces ideas from current DCP blog entries. A disciple, at the very least.
I think God would have done the direct route and appeared, speaking what he wanted to say in clear and concise language. I also don't think he would have had me write a book to publish His words. He would probably dictate or write the book himself and then hand it over to me, commanding me to spread the word.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:29 amJust out of interest, if God spoke to you back in the early eighteen hundreds and you had little or no experience with ‘god’, how would you expect he may have communicated with you? And if he were to have you write a book, what do you see as being the process…ways and means…by which he would have done so.
Serious question.
Regards,
MG
Hey RFM, have you done a podcast dealing with the topic I’ve interjected on this thread? I would be interested in listening to your responses to the questions and tentative conclusions I’ve proposed throughout this thread.
Um...KEEP doesn't mean LOW, dude. And you mold every opinion you have to fit whatever thread you are trolling, so please don't pretend you now have standards.
Excellent assessment.canpakes wrote: ↑Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:19 pmOK. You ask that one should consider, “why he did what he did. Or at least try and make some sense out of what the facts at our disposal seem to point to.”
You’ve provided the Joseph Knight situation to help the reader process this question… which, basically, can be distilled down to this:
Smith: I have golden plates that I’m going to translate into a new record of Christ in America!
Knight: Astounding! Here, let me help take care of you while you do some translating. I’ll give you free provisions, room and board, foodstuffs, transportation and other aid so that you can spend time simply doing what you want to do with those plates that you won’t let me see!
Smith: Sweet! :: high fives all around ::
… Did I miss anything?
You’re asking me to consider how hard this was for Joseph - to be taken care of in this manner - as opposed to being, say, a farmer working his fields to provide for his family?
What conclusion do you believe that most folks draw from this?
What an elaborate scheme!
Rather, it’s not elaborate. It’s pretty simple: ‘I have a golden book. I’m going to translate it. You’re not allowed to see it. I’ll tell you when I’m done. Oh, and I need some paper; can you bring me some? And some dinner rolls?’
If you wish.Joseph and Emma having to move to protect the plates. Joseph leaving a sick wife to check on the status of the manuscript. The Knight family stepping up to help with the necessities requires during the early translation period. We can keep going…
The whole ‘transition to the dark side’ thing is your own invention. Clearly, Smith had been telling stories as a child at the dinner table that he further fleshed out years later into the characters and storyline of the Book. Or was Mom just lying about that?And all of this coming out of the experience of a young farmboy who was seeking truth from his maker in regards to his acceptance/forgiveness of the Lord in regards to his sins. I asked malkie when he thought Joseph turned to the ‘dark side’ and came up with the elaborate scheme of writing a book such as he did. Malkie said, First Vision. But that doesn’t hold water. After the vision one would think that Joseph would want to seek the Lord’s will, then do it.
By all accounts SOMETHING happened in the grove when Joseph went to pray. It changed his life trajectory.
What if Joseph went into the grove, napped, and dreamt the events of the FV? Does that make him evil? Does it mean that he can’t imagine that he saw something? How would that be any different than some of the witnesses talking about how they saw the plates with their spiritual eyes?
The power of suggestion is pretty strong, and history is filled with folks who are convinced that they’ve had long conversations with their God.
This statement doesn’t make much sense, considering that he and his family were treasure seers/seekers, and dabbled into what we would refer to as the occult, etc.There is just TOO much going on during Joseph’s early life that would give one pause at pointing fingers at him and calling him a fraud.
I’m not seeing a good case here for why Joseph couldn’t have an excellent imagination, and a strong desire to concoct a record that he would claim to be genuine, even if he didn’t have grand plans to do much of anything with it after the fact.Sure, he and his family were treasure seers/seekers. Yes, they dabbled into what we would refer to as the occult. I would suggest that some here go back and read Bushman’s book again, or for the first time, to get a well laid out picture of what was going on at the time rather than relying on short little pieces of poop put out there by folks such as Doc and his oh so cute small letter big letter creations of silliness.
Rather, I do see some excellent reasons as to why he ‘went there’, and I sure don’t see that being taken care of by trusting friends while doing so was soooo hard for him, as opposed to daily manual labor in the fields.
You can even extrapolate that out to consider that he might have figured this path would also help him take care of Emma, if you want to keep telling me how much he loved her.
In any event, Smith ‘figured things out’ early. ; )
How would you have gotten others to believe you if you were the only one or one of very few that He appeared to?Dr Exiled wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:49 amI think God would have done the direct route and appeared, speaking what he wanted to say in clear and concise language.MG 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:29 am
Just out of interest, if God spoke to you back in the early eighteen hundreds and you had little or no experience with ‘god’, how would you expect he may have communicated with you? And if he were to have you write a book, what do you see as being the process…ways and means…by which he would have done so.
Serious question.
Regards,
MG
I have personal standards, but I’m not surprised when they are not followed by others. Like I said, low expectations usually don’t result in disappointment.
Yet another example of the complete and utter lack of situational awareness by a troll who just pops in to drop a testimonkey because he has such an oPeN mInD.