Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
huckelberry
God
Posts: 2579
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:48 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by huckelberry »

Don Bradley wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:46 am
malkie wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 9:48 pm
Fun fact: the lead author, Michael A Ferguson, is a member of the CoC, Toronto Congregation (Centre Place), and a friend of mine.
Also a friend of mine. And a wonderful human being.

He is also a believer in God, and specifically a God who answers prayers. His study was not attempting to denigrate Latter-day Saint spiritual experience.
Don, thanks for the information. I was unsure how to approach the article. I thought the presented excerpt was sort of hanging in the air without direction. I have read some pieces on this message board in the past using biological studies of religious experience to downplay the possibility that there was any divine involvement. I do not see that as demonstrated one way or the other.

Is there further observations beyond seeing that people can experience religion as something pleasing and satisfying? Perhaps there are observations about what material people responded to and what they did not.
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by MG 2.0 »

Physics Guy wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:03 am
What if God wants us to believe, but instead of giving us evidence that would lead us to believe rationally, gave us instincts for faith?

It might be a somewhat cynical educational approach by God, like a teacher getting kids to learn arithmetic by rewarding them with candy. The kids would reach the right conclusions but for bogus reasons; instead of understanding numbers they’d just memorize the times tables that brought the most sweets.

On the other hand maybe some cynicism is appropriate, and God should know human nature.
I think you might be closer than you think.

My experience is around 60/40. Faith/rational belief.

My skeptical mind though plays tricks on this ratio from time to time. 😉

Then I have a spiritual experience of one kind or another, and boom.

Regards,
MG
User avatar
malkie
God
Posts: 1478
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:41 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by malkie »

Returning to the OP:
sock puppet wrote:
Fri Jan 14, 2022 6:06 pm
In April 2016, a study based on young, yet devout RMs led neuroscientists to conclude that religious experience triggers the same reward mechanism in/part of the brain as sex and drugs. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/10.1080 ... 16.1257437

...

So it seems that perhaps the "sins" of sex (outside marriage), gambling, and drugs are competitors to "feeling the spirit" (the Mormon hook, as well as that of several other religions). The LDS Church encourages some music, while discouraging other types.

The reason for my bringing this study and topic back up almost 6 years after the fact is that I do not recall what if any was the response to it and its findings and conclusions by the LDS hierarchy or its self-appointed defenders. Was there any reaction? What was it? Or did the LDS church and its defenders just choose to ignore this study?
Michael, the first author on the study, tells me that he has been invited multiple times to speak about it at BYU. In other words, there are people within the faith who continue to respond with positive intellectual curiosity, and that he finds encouraging!
You can help Ukraine by talking for an hour a week!! PM me, or check www.enginprogram.org for details.
Слава Україні!, 𝑺𝒍𝒂𝒗𝒂 𝑼𝒌𝒓𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒊!
doubtingthomas
God
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by doubtingthomas »

Don Bradley wrote:
Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:46 am
Also a friend of mine. And a wonderful human being.

He is also a believer in God, and specifically a God who answers prayers. His study was not attempting to denigrate Latter-day Saint spiritual experience.
Hopefully you take the time to answer my question, I am interested in your view.

Why do you believe in God and the church? Is the Latter-day Saint church necessary?
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
doubtingthomas
God
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by doubtingthomas »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:09 am
Don, thanks for the information. I was unsure how to approach the article. I thought the presented excerpt was sort of hanging in the air without direction. I have read some pieces on this message board in the past using biological studies of religious experience to downplay the possibility that there was any divine involvement.
Divine involvement is possible, but there are good reasons to doubt it.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
Don Bradley
Star B
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 2:41 am

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by Don Bradley »

Hunter Biden and DT,

Sorry, just saw these comments.

As organisms, our cognition and experience is always linked to brain activity. There are studies on all sorts of cognition and experience, including perception, memory, and rational thought. Identifying the physical correlates of the mental activity involved in rational thought does not negate the epistemic validity of rational thought. As embodied minds, what else would we expect than that all our mental experiences--including all our epistemic modes, from ratiocination to revelation--would have bodily correlates?

Don
"People can find meaninglessness in just about anything if they convince themselves that there is no meaning in that thing." - The Rev. Dr. Lumen Kishkumen
User avatar
Res Ipsa
God
Posts: 9569
Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2020 6:44 pm
Location: Playing Rabbits

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by Res Ipsa »

Don Bradley wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:09 am
Hunter Biden and DT,

Sorry, just saw these comments.

As organisms, our cognition and experience is always linked to brain activity. There are studies on all sorts of cognition and experience, including perception, memory, and rational thought. Identifying the physical correlates of the mental activity involved in rational thought does not negate the epistemic validity of rational thought. As embodied minds, what else would we expect than that all our mental experiences--including all our epistemic modes, from ratiocination to revelation--would have bodily correlates?

Don
Hi Don. It's nice to see you around these parts. Personally, I wouldn't have the first idea about the expected characteristics of an embodied mind/spirit. Given our lack of both data and experience, should we expect a perfect correspondence? I agree that that the evidence doesn't negate the possibility of an embodied spirit, but I think it weighs against the notion that a spirit is a necessary condition.
he/him
When I go to sea, don’t fear for me. Fear for the storm.

Jessica Best, Fear for the Storm. From The Strange Case of the Starship Iris.
User avatar
PseudoPaul
Star B
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:12 pm

Re: Revisiting the 2016 neuroscience study

Post by PseudoPaul »

Don Bradley wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 7:09 am
Hunter Biden and DT,

Sorry, just saw these comments.

As organisms, our cognition and experience is always linked to brain activity. There are studies on all sorts of cognition and experience, including perception, memory, and rational thought. Identifying the physical correlates of the mental activity involved in rational thought does not negate the epistemic validity of rational thought. As embodied minds, what else would we expect than that all our mental experiences--including all our epistemic modes, from ratiocination to revelation--would have bodily correlates?

Don
In the study they took six CS Lewis quotes and attributed them to various religious leaders - some non LDS (the Pope, Desmond Tutu, etc) and some LDS (church presidents). Respondents reported feeling the spirit MUCH stronger when they thought the quote was by an LDS leader. But, as I said, all of the quotes were from CS Lewis.

Did the study manage to trick the Spirit?
Post Reply