Brigham Young, critic of racism

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drumdude
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Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by drumdude »

DP wrote:It’s been fashionable in recent years to demonize Brigham Young as a racist, even a vicious one — and, in some cases, essentially to forget that there was anything else to the man.

In racial matters, Brigham Young said some things that jar us today, and that we cannot endorse. There’s no denying this. He was, as we all are — even the prophets among us — a man of his time and culture and background.

But he was a good man, a remarkable man, indeed a great man, a sincere disciple of the Lord and a prophet who sought to do God’s will.

I choose to stand with him.
What constitutes characterizing Brigham as a critic of racism? These quotes:
President Young counseled the Saints to “use the man with respect.” “Its nothing to do with the blood,” replied President Young, “for of one blood has God made all flesh.”
I recommend this wonderful article in Dialogue as a rebuttal to DP's cherry picking.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/pdf/452267 ... s=&origin=

Here's a short summary.
There once was a time, albeit brief, when a "Negro problem" did not exist for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. During those early months in New York and Ohio, no mention was even made of church attitudes towards blacks. The gospel was for "all nations, kindreds, tongues and peoples,"1 and no exceptions were made.

After the prophet's death, most of his philosophy and teachings were effectively canonized. There was one significant subject on which this does not appear to have been the case - the status of the Negro. A measure of the influence of Joseph Smith's personal presence in shaping early Mormon attitudes on this subject can be obtained by contrasting the church position prior to his death with the developments which followed:
Any man having one drop of the seed of [Cain]. . .in him cannot hold the priesthood and if no other Prophet ever spake it before I will say it now in the name of Jesus Christ I know it is true and others know it. - Brigham Young, 1852
History and common observation show [Noah's curse to] have been fulfilled to the letter. The descendants of Ham, besides a black skin which has ever been a curse that has followed an apostate of the holy priesthood, as well as a black heart, have been servants to both Shem and Japheth, and the abolitionists are trying to make void the curse of God, but it will require more power than man possesses to counteract the decrees of eternal wisdom. Times and Seasons 1845
The "laissez-faire" approach to slavery in Utah was short-lived and came to an end early in 1852. As the Mormons quickly learned, Mexicans had carried out slaving expeditions into the region for decades, buying Indians from local tribes who staged raids for "captives of war." Periodically, children were offered for sale to the Mormons. The enslavement of Indians, a "chosen people" in Mormon theology, posed a much more serious problem than had Negro slavery. Governor Brigham Young took action to stop the raiding parties and in January 1852 requested legislation on the slavery question.
It has long since ceased to become a query with me, who were the most amenable to the laws of righteousness; those who through the instrumentality of human power brought into servitude human beings, who naturally were their own equals, or those who, acting upon the principle of nature's law, brought into this position or situation, those who were naturally designed for that purpose, and whose capacities are more befitting that, than any other station in society. Thus, while servitude may and should exist, and that too upon those who are naturally designed to occupy the position of 'servant of servants' yet we should not fall into the other extreme, and make them as beasts of the field, regarding not the humanity which attaches to the colored race; nor yet elevate them, as some seem disposed, to an equality with those whom Nature and Nature's God has indicated to be their masters, their superiors. Brigham Young 1852
The suitable regulations were shortly forthcoming, and within a few weeks Young signed into law acts legalizing both Negro and Indian slavery. No other territory legalized both Indian and Negro servitude.
As early as "our first settlement in Missouri. . .we knew that the children of Ham were to be 'servant of servants,' and no power under heaven could hinder it, so long as the Lord should permit them to welter under the curse, and those were known to be our religious views concerning them." Brigham Young 1855
The Lord put a mark upon [Cain], which is the flat nose and the black skin. Trace mankind down to after the flood, and then another curse is pronounced upon the same race - that they should be the "servant of servants;" and they will, until that curse is removed; and the Abolitionists cannot help it, nor in the least alter that decree. Brigham Young 1859
Brigham Young derived a second, far-reaching implication from the genealogy of the Negro. Asked what "chance of redemption there was for the Africans," Young answered that "the curse remained upon them because Cain cut off the lives of Abel with blackness and prohibited them the Priesthood."
"The Negro cannot hold one part of Government" (this immediately followed the above quotation); he would "not consent for the seed of [Cain] to vote for me or my Brethren"; "the Canaanite cannot have wisdom to do things as white man has"; miscegenation required blood atonement (offspring included) for salvation; and the curse would some day be removed from the "seed of Cain." Brigham Young 1852
While it is now popular among Mormons to argue that the basis for the priesthood denial to Negroes is unknown, no uncertainty was evident in the discourses of Brigham Young. From the initial remark in 1849 throughout his presidency, every known discussion of this subject by Young (or any other leading Mormon) invoked the connection with Cain as the justification for denying the priesthood to blacks. "Any man having one drop of the seed of Cain in him cannot receive the priesthood " (1852);87 "[w]hen all the other children of Adam have had the privilege of receiving the Priesthood. . .it will be time enough to remove the curse from Cain and his posterity" (1854);88 "[ujntil the last ones of the residue of Adam's children are brought up to that favourable position, the children of Cain cannot receive the first ordinances of the Priesthood" (1859);89 "[w]hen all the rest of the children have received their blessings in the Holy Priesthood, then that curse will be removed from the seed of Cain" Brigham Young (1866).


Notwithstanding the repeated denunciations of racism by the modern church, the evidence for "racist" attitudes among nineteenth-century Mormon leaders is indisputable. Despite the implications of these attitudes for modern Mormonism, their significance in the nineteenth century was negligible. "Mormon" descriptions of Negro abilities and potential can as readily be obtained from the publications of their learned contemporaries. Such a book, not atypical of this era, could be found in Brigham Young's library: Negro-Mania: Being an Examination of the Falsely Assumed Equality of the Various Races of Men. While blatantly racist by any modern standard, this work cited men of acknowledged intellect from a variety of fields - Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, Baron Cuvier, Champollion, Samuel G. Morton, Rosellini, George Gliddon, Samuel Stanhope Smith, Thomas Jefferson, to name but a few. Brigham Young could find ample support for his racial views in this collection alone, and it was by no means exhaustive. Many others could have been included. The American scientific community, while divided on the question of slavery, was virtually unanimous in ascribing racial inferiority to the Negroes.
A smarter argument for DP to have made would be not to argue that Brigham was a "critic of racism" but instead that he was merely as racist as everyone else was at the time.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by Chap »

Did I miss this bit?
Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses: Prophet Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, v. 10, p. 110

“Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so"
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That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
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drumdude
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by drumdude »

I only made it a dozen pages through the article, and I didn't include every quote. There were many more quotes than I expected.

The article puts them into chronological and historical context, and really shows that while a case could be made that perhaps Joseph was less racist than average, Brigham was decidedly not. The Mormon church has overcome racism not due to any contribution by Brigham, but laboriously in spite of him and the racist legacy he left behind.
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sock puppet
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

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Brigham was not living in an era in which all or most all people were racist. It was a big issue while he was alive. The U.S. fought a civil war against slavery in the early 1860s. It was an issue on which many lined up to defend slavery and racism while many, many others were lining up against it. Brigham was on the wrong side of the issue of his day. Condemning Brigham's conduct is not mere presentism as DCP is insinuating.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

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sock puppet wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:25 pm
Brigham was not living in an era in which all or most all people were racist. It was a big issue while he was alive. The U.S. fought a civil war against slavery in the early 1860s. It was an issue on which many lined up to defend slavery and racism while many, many others were lining up against it. Brigham was on the wrong side of the issue of his day. Condemning Brigham's conduct is not mere presentism as DCP is insinuating.
It seems a little more grey to me. You could be against slavery, and still be decidedly racist. We had 100 years between the end of slavery and the civil rights act. I think the main point here is the Brigham was not in any way an anti-racist. He wasn't even a critic of racism, as DCP tries to argue with a lone quote.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by Kishkumen »

I find the “choose to stand with him” language as fresh and moving as “use the Force” and “he’s our only hope.”

I choose to stand with sound principles and not with dead leaders.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by Doctor Scratch »

DCP is what might be called a "soft" racist--i.e., it's not like he uses the "N"-word or has a Confederate flag hanging in his office, but he probably thinks that Affirmative Action is a sham, etc. And there are plenty of his own statements to consider--e.g., advising interracial couples to think long and hard about marrying because it would be "difficult." Plus, there was that blog post, early on in "SeN"'s run, where he said that American Blacks should be grateful for slavery because it led to them being born in the U.S. rather than Africa. And there have been the many gaffes and screwups on MLK Day over the years--slamming Dr. King *on the holiday,* among many, many other things. So, of course he looks the other way when it comes to BY's racism.

But the point at the heart of DCP's post is sort of interesting: he's basically saying--sure, there is some really offensive stuff when it comes to BY, but hey: nobody's perfect, so cut the guy some slack. The thing is, when does DCP ever do this when it's actually difficult? He'll look past BY's racism because BY was a major figure in Church history. But is DCP capable of treating *critics* in this same way? Let's see if he's anything other than a heartless lackey--let's see him extend the olive branch to, e.g., Jonathan Neville or Ed Decker. Let's see him say some kind things about Dan Vogel, or Brent Metcalfe, or John Dehlin.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Doctor Scratch wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:28 pm
DCP is what might be called a "soft" racist--i.e., it's not like he uses the "N"-word or has a Confederate flag hanging in his office, but he probably thinks that Affirmative Action is a sham, etc. And there are plenty of his own statements to consider--e.g., advising interracial couples to think long and hard about marrying because it would be "difficult." Plus, there was that blog post, early on in "SeN"'s run, where he said that American Blacks should be grateful for slavery because it led to them being born in the U.S. rather than Africa. And there have been the many gaffes and screwups on MLK Day over the years--slamming Dr. King *on the holiday,* among many, many other things. So, of course he looks the other way when it comes to BY's racism.

But the point at the heart of DCP's post is sort of interesting: he's basically saying--sure, there is some really offensive stuff when it comes to BY, but hey: nobody's perfect, so cut the guy some slack. The thing is, when does DCP ever do this when it's actually difficult? He'll look past BY's racism because BY was a major figure in Church history. But is DCP capable of treating *critics* in this same way? Let's see if he's anything other than a heartless lackey--let's see him extend the olive branch to, e.g., Jonathan Neville or Ed Decker. Let's see him say some kind things about Dan Vogel, or Brent Metcalfe, or John Dehlin.
His little cabal of assholes were bagging on Dan Vogel for the job he chooses to do outside of being an author, and DCP didn’t take any of them to task for being condescending twats. He loves that crap. He loves it when Mormons are ‘rough’ on others, and so if BY was a racist who cares? BY was rough on people, and that appeals to DCP because it’s his tribe.

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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by sock puppet »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sun Jan 16, 2022 10:35 pm
I find the “choose to stand with him” language as fresh and moving as “use the Force” and “he’s our only hope.”

I choose to stand with sound principles and not with dead leaders.
Agreed.
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Re: Brigham Young, critic of racism

Post by drumdude »

What does it mean to stand by a dead prophet? One of the 14 fundamentals of following the prophet is to discard the old ones, because they were wrong.
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