Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Physics Guy
God
Posts: 1557
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:40 am
Location: on the battlefield of life

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by Physics Guy »

How is there no mechanical way for the hands to make the rods cross?

The dowsing method I know uses L-shaped rods; you hold the short arm of the L in your fists, vertically, and let the long end stick out parallel to the ground. You're supposed to keep your fists very loose, so that the rods can swing freely, but you have to apply some force to keep the long ends of the rods from tipping down.

That makes the direction of the long ends of the rods about as unstable as a broomstick balanced vertically. Tiny forces from your hands, that you won't even notice, can easily make the rods swing. Trying not to exert any force at all is like a subconscious game of "don't think of a pink elephant". It's almost impossible, especially if you're walking while doing this, since each step jostles the rods a bit.

If you're trying dowsing with any kind of open mind, furthermore, then you have an idea that perhaps the rods might be about to just move on their own, and that if they somehow do, then you're supposed to just let them swing and not try to stop them. When the rods are so unstable that tiny forces start them swinging, it's very hard to distinguish trying not to stop them from starting them. You feel that you might have inadvertently nudged them, or jostled them slightly while walking, so you just correct for that ...

Dowsing is real, all right, but it's a real psychological effect, not a physical one in which hidden objects make the rods move.
I was a teenager before it was cool.
User avatar
Rivendale
God
Posts: 1168
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by Rivendale »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 am
How is there no mechanical way for the hands to make the rods cross?

The dowsing method I know uses L-shaped rods; you hold the short arm of the L in your fists, vertically, and let the long end stick out parallel to the ground. You're supposed to keep your fists very loose, so that the rods can swing freely, but you have to apply some force to keep the long ends of the rods from tipping down.

That makes the direction of the long ends of the rods about as unstable as a broomstick balanced vertically. Tiny forces from your hands, that you won't even notice, can easily make the rods swing. Trying not to exert any force at all is like a subconscious game of "don't think of a pink elephant". It's almost impossible, especially if you're walking while doing this, since each step jostles the rods a bit.

If you're trying dowsing with any kind of open mind, furthermore, then you have an idea that perhaps the rods might be about to just move on their own, and that if they somehow do, then you're supposed to just let them swing and not try to stop them. When the rods are so unstable that tiny forces start them swinging, it's very hard to distinguish trying not to stop them from starting them. You feel that you might have inadvertently nudged them, or jostled them slightly while walking, so you just correct for that ...

Dowsing is real, all right, but it's a real psychological effect, not a physical one in which hidden objects make the rods move.
I did this demonstration in my physics class many years ago. When I was practicing it I was amazed at how accurate it was when I knew which cup had water in it. I decided to stop when a few students mentioned that early Mormonism used this often. I decided that showing them there is no physics that supported (other than ideomoter effect) it was not worth the pitch forks and sticks parents would bring to my office. Even my fellow Mormon teacher said it has no known mechanism, that is what makes it a miracle.
drumdude
God
Posts: 5219
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by drumdude »

Rivendale wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 2:29 pm
Even my fellow Mormon teacher said it has no known mechanism, that is what makes it a miracle.
It's so sad people aren't even a little bit curious to find the actual explanations for things.
drumdude
God
Posts: 5219
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by drumdude »

DP wrote:gemli: "Do you actually know anything about brain physiology, neurology, the effects of hypoxia, the neurochemistry of near-death experiences or the fact that the drug ketamine can evoke the same experiences?"

I do, and they don't.
I really don't want to make another thread about DP.

"Daniel Peterson, Neuroscientist"...


FFS dan please stop saying stupid things. Please.
cinepro
CTR B
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by cinepro »

This is a great segment on Dowsing from an old PBS show hosted by Alan Alda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq4S6ArE7wc
User avatar
dantana
2nd Counselor
Posts: 420
Joined: Fri Oct 30, 2020 1:07 am
Location: Joined 7/18/11, so, apparently, position of senior ranking member.

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by dantana »

Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 am
How is there no mechanical way for the hands to make the rods cross?

The dowsing method I know uses L-shaped rods; you hold the short arm of the L in your fists, vertically, and let the long end stick out parallel to the ground. You're supposed to keep your fists very loose, so that the rods can swing freely, but you have to apply some force to keep the long ends of the rods from tipping down.

That makes the direction of the long ends of the rods about as unstable as a broomstick balanced vertically. Tiny forces from your hands, that you won't even notice, can easily make the rods swing. Trying not to exert any force at all is like a subconscious game of "don't think of a pink elephant". It's almost impossible, especially if you're walking while doing this, since each step jostles the rods a bit.

If you're trying dowsing with any kind of open mind, furthermore, then you have an idea that perhaps the rods might be about to just move on their own, and that if they somehow do, then you're supposed to just let them swing and not try to stop them. When the rods are so unstable that tiny forces start them swinging, it's very hard to distinguish trying not to stop them from starting them. You feel that you might have inadvertently nudged them, or jostled them slightly while walking, so you just correct for that ...

Dowsing is real, all right, but it's a real psychological effect, not a physical one in which hidden objects make the rods move.

Since my wife doesn't believe in wire coat hangers, and I don't want to go rummage around out in the shop, I just tried it with a pencil. I cannot get the pencil to rotate even a smidge without obvious finger hand contortions. I'm not with you an this one PG.
Nobody gets to be a cowboy forever. - Lee Marvin/Monte Walsh
User avatar
Rivendale
God
Posts: 1168
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:21 pm

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by Rivendale »

dantana wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:45 pm
Physics Guy wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 10:46 am
How is there no mechanical way for the hands to make the rods cross?

The dowsing method I know uses L-shaped rods; you hold the short arm of the L in your fists, vertically, and let the long end stick out parallel to the ground. You're supposed to keep your fists very loose, so that the rods can swing freely, but you have to apply some force to keep the long ends of the rods from tipping down.

That makes the direction of the long ends of the rods about as unstable as a broomstick balanced vertically. Tiny forces from your hands, that you won't even notice, can easily make the rods swing. Trying not to exert any force at all is like a subconscious game of "don't think of a pink elephant". It's almost impossible, especially if you're walking while doing this, since each step jostles the rods a bit.

If you're trying dowsing with any kind of open mind, furthermore, then you have an idea that perhaps the rods might be about to just move on their own, and that if they somehow do, then you're supposed to just let them swing and not try to stop them. When the rods are so unstable that tiny forces start them swinging, it's very hard to distinguish trying not to stop them from starting them. You feel that you might have inadvertently nudged them, or jostled them slightly while walking, so you just correct for that ...

Dowsing is real, all right, but it's a real psychological effect, not a physical one in which hidden objects make the rods move.

Since my wife doesn't believe in wire coat hangers, and I don't want to go rummage around out in the shop, I just tried it with a pencil. I cannot get the pencil to rotate even a smidge without obvious finger hand contortions. I'm not with you an this one PG.
Wire coat hangers work perfectly , go buy some.
drumdude
God
Posts: 5219
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by drumdude »

Make sure to get the extra virgin wire hangar, or it won't work.
cinepro
CTR B
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by cinepro »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:56 pm
Make sure to get the extra virgin wire hangar, or it won't work.
Years ago in Elder's Quorum, we were reviewing Priesthood Ordinances. We were discussing blessings, and the instructor asked "What kind of olive oil should be used?"

Other class members gave the usual answers, and then I raised my hand and said "Yes, but if the person has a heart condition, you might want to use light olive oil*. And if they're not married, you should use extra virgin olive oil..."


*I know the "light" in light olive oil doesn't refer to its nutritional value. But it worked for the joke.
drumdude
God
Posts: 5219
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Daniel Peterson, Water Dowser

Post by drumdude »

cinepro wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 9:31 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue Jan 18, 2022 8:56 pm
Make sure to get the extra virgin wire hangar, or it won't work.
Years ago in Elder's Quorum, we were reviewing Priesthood Ordinances. We were discussing blessings, and the instructor asked "What kind of olive oil should be used?"

Other class members gave the usual answers, and then I raised my hand and said "Yes, but if the person has a heart condition, you might want to use light olive oil*. And if they're not married, you should use extra virgin olive oil..."


*I know the "light" in light olive oil doesn't refer to its nutritional value. But it worked for the joke.
Priceless!
Post Reply