Shulem wrote:
Step right up folks and see the show!
Yeah, step right up.
Your responses to my posts solidify/reinforce, for me, the lengths at which critics will turn a blind eye to facts. Even when they are put right in front of their eyes.
It’s interesting to watch. Over and over again.
I think Elder Maxwell was on to something.
Probably time to take another break.
Back at a later date.
Regards,
MG
I fixed your quote for you. Shulem said that, not me. That’s one of your oldest tricks.
If you’re taking a break from derailing, great!!! we can get back to the topic:
Why the threats? Your case is devoid of solid evidence of actual Nephites. The plates conveniently disappeared and Joseph Smith didn't use them in any event. His rock was useless when the 116 pages were lost/destroyed. The book itself is full of contradictions and copying from the Bible and Clarke's commentaries, etc., etc. So, the fiction conclusion is beyond a reasonable doubt and Shulem is on to a way to explain how the geography was invented. You ought to avoid the "believe or else" nonsense, especially when your case is so incredibly weak. However, if threats of having to live with the obvious conclusion are necessary for you, then by all means continue to threaten.
I am no threat to Shulem. He can stand on his own. And I didn’t make any threats. Everything I stated was fact.
As for the conclusions that you’ve come to I’m not going to argue with you point by point. Many folks have gone down these rabbit trails time after time, including me. There really is not much that is new under the sun to discuss on any one of the points you bring up.
Listing the predictable ‘soundbites’ in a few lines of text doesn’t do service to the reasons people believe in the doctrines and practices of the CofJCofLDS. And the testimonies they have of the scriptures and the spirit felt as they read them that witnesses to their souls that of God and His Son live and that the Plan of Salvation answers the questions mankind has been asking for millennia.
And MANY still are.
As I said, some will and some won’t receive that testimony. That’s just the way it is.
But we can still get along. I mean, look at the Pope and President Nelson. Working together to alleviate suffering and hardship throughout the world. If they were mortal enemies would they engage like they have?
Regards,
MG
1. Of course you aren't a threat to Shulem. I doubt you know where he lives. This is a non sequitur.
2. Your "you made your bed and now have to lie in it" was certainly meant to be akin to warning/threatening some future peril due to conduct of which you do not approve. Because your warning/threat is based on the imagination of Joseph Smith and other imaginary beliefs found in the Bible, etc., it is an empty threat, however. I like it though .... "you'd better believe or else ...." It's a nice way to get out of a losing position.
3. Everything you stated was fact? Really? Of course you did.
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
No longer need ye depend on the shortsightedness of Mormon apologists who present their retarded models as if the land of Nephi is higher in elevation than Zarahemla. No longer need ye think that going up means ascending an incline or a mountain! Folks, going up and down works both ways from Zarahemla and the land of Nephi and back. It's as simple as ABC or 1,2,3! Now bring out the polka-dotted elephants and watch the show! Horses and chariots too!
Folks, we now have a choice! Delmarva or retarded models presented by the Mormons who can't get their narrow neck right let alone their directions and seas. Truly the Mormons are from a lost land from Joe's imagination.
Step right up and see the show!
Last edited by Shulem on Sun Mar 27, 2022 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Your responses to my posts solidify/reinforce, for me, the lengths at which critics will turn a blind eye to facts. Even when they are put right in front of their eyes.
The psychological coping mechanism which Freud called projection is on display here.
Your responses to my posts solidify/reinforce, for me, the lengths at which critics will turn a blind eye to facts. Even when they are put right in front of their eyes.
The psychological coping mechanism which Freud called projection is on display here.
MG knows the narrow neck is a real problem in all of the models produced by faithful Mormons. MG is not stupid and has obviously spent some time researching and trying to figure out where to go from here. He admits to having made some adjustments as his leaning towards a southern neck is fading, a theory that fails to convince anyone to say, "Hey, look, that's got to be the narrow neck described exactly in the Book of Mormon."
The narrow neck at Delmarva fits like a tee. There couldn't be a better example anywhere on the map to demonstrate the neck of Smith's story. It works perfectly and is a dead ringer. And just think, you learned about it first right here on Discuss Mormonism from Shulem, the Book of Mormon ringmaster! What a deal, I'd say.
So let me ask MG if he has completely ruled out Delmarva. Well?
The psychological coping mechanism which Freud called projection is on display here.
MG knows the narrow neck is a real problem in all of the models produced by faithful Mormons. MG is not stupid and has obviously spent some time researching and trying to figure out where to go from here. He admits to having made some adjustments as his leaning towards a southern neck is fading, a theory that fails to convince anyone to say, "Hey, look, that's got to be the narrow neck described exactly in the Book of Mormon."
The narrow neck at Delmarva fits like a tee. There couldn't be a better example anywhere on the map to demonstrate the neck of Smith's story. It works perfectly and is a dead ringer. And just think, you learned about it first right here on Discuss Mormonism from Shulem, the Book of Mormon ringmaster! What a deal, I'd say.
So let me ask MG if he has completely ruled out Delmarva. Well?
What adjustments would have to be made within the actual narrative/history of the Book of Mormon to fit the Delmarva theory? In other words, does Delmarva ‘fit’ into the Book of Mormon?
If YOU were a believer in the historicity of the Book of Mormon would you find the Delmarva theory at the top of YOUR list for probable locations for the Book of Mormon?
Just play along. Separate yourself from a fictional Book of Mormon for the time being.
What adjustments would have to be made within the actual narrative/history of the Book of Mormon to fit the Delmarva theory? In other words, does Delmarva ‘fit’ into the Book of Mormon?
The only thing that I've been able to surmise as a problem in the narrative that describes landform in the Book of Mormon is the indication that there are several hills and points of elevation. Considering however, that Smith deemed Cumorah in New York to be a fairly good sized hill he probably figured and assumed that the same kind of hills existed on the peninsula but he knew there were no large mountains per se. So, the contour of terrain as described in the narrative doesn't really belong on the peninsula.
If YOU were a believer in the historicity of the Book of Mormon would you find the Delmarva theory at the top of YOUR list for probable locations for the Book of Mormon?
There was a point when I was a believer years ago when I seriously considered Delmarva was a match made in heaven. The problem was a flat terrain and no archeological evidence would back the Book of Mormon. I never embraced any of the theories now extant.
Just play along. Separate yourself from a fictional Book of Mormon for the time being.
Believe me, I love to play. That's how I figure things out. But I spent most of my years trying to figure out a nonfiction Book of Mormon geography and failed. The problems with the existing models put out by apologist are enormous and there is no way that I even as a believer could accept any of them, even if the prophet said so. I can't lie to myself.
The problems with Delmarva are very easy to work out when considering Joseph Smith never saw the land for himself and relied on maps of his day to give him a general idea of what was there. I think the main reason he never exposed/declared Delmarva as the land of Nephi early on was because he was unsure about the exact specifics of the landform and what archeological ruins might exist down there. So he kept a tight lip.
Just play along. Separate yourself from a fictional Book of Mormon for the time being.
Assume there were a great many ruins scattered about Delmarva, many of which are at the ocean's edge and geologists confirm that ancient cities sunk into the sea long ago. Suppose there were massive stone structures like those down in Central America but that the ones in Delmarva were sunken into the earth. Suppose science had proven that the Delmarva landscape was formerly rough having many hills but was made smooth and flattened by catastrophic storms and earthquakes a millennia ago.
Suppose all that. You have your Book of Mormon land! Right? Of course right.
The problems with Delmarva are very easy to work out when considering Joseph Smith never saw the land for himself and relied on maps of his day to give him a general idea of what was there. I think the main reason he never exposed/declared Delmarva as the land of Nephi early on was because he was unsure about the exact specifics of the landform and what archeological ruins might exist down there. So he kept a tight lip.
You make it sound as though Delmarva is on the other side of the world. It wasn’t.
I think he would have known more than you might like to think about this area.
