Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

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Shulem
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Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by Shulem »

I'm pulling content from another thread because it hasn't gotten any attention and the trick deserves its own thread. I, Shulem, challenge Radio Free Mormon to see if he can solve the trick -- or will RFM be fooled like everyone else? Who is the real magician? Is it I, Shulem? ;)


WELCOME to another dose and special presentation from Shulem!

Allow me to show you another card, which I now lay on the table. Not even Radio Free Mormon can catch this trick:

Mosiah 7:3 wrote:And it came to pass that on the morrow they started to go up, having with them one Ammon, he being a strong and mighty man, and a descendant of Zarahemla; and he was also their leader.

So, what if anything about that sentence seems fishy? Can you spot it? I can! It’s a single word NEVER found in any of its variations in the entire Bible, not once in the D&C, and not once in the Book of Abraham or Book of Moses. It is however found 3 times in Joseph Smith’s personal history published in the Pearl of Great Price. It’s found 5 times in the Book of Mormon all linked to expeditions. It’s a red flag and indicates Smith really was the sole author of the Book of Mormon.

What is that word?

The five card slip-ups, not even RFM can catch


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Mosiah 7:3 wrote:And it came to pass that on the morrow they started to go up, having with them one Ammon, he being a strong and mighty man, and a descendant of Zarahemla; and he was also their leader.
Mosiah 9:3 wrote:And yet, I being over-zealous to inherit the land of our fathers, collected as many as were desirous to go up to possess the land, and started again on our journey into the wilderness to go up to the land; but we were smitten with famine and sore afflictions; for we were slow to remember the Lord our God.
Alma 26:1 wrote:And now, these are the words of Ammon to his brethren, which say thus: My brothers and my brethren, behold I say unto you, how great reason have we to rejoice; for could we have supposed when we started from the land of Zarahemla that God would have granted unto us such great blessings?
Alma 57:28 wrote:And now it came to pass that after we had thus taken care of our wounded men, and had buried our dead and also the dead of the Lamanites, who were many, behold, we did inquire of Gid concerning the prisoners whom they had started to go down to the land of Zarahemla with.
Alma 57:30 wrote:And now, these are the words which Gid said unto me: Behold, we did start to go down to the land of Zarahemla with our prisoners. And it came to pass that we did meet the spies of our armies, who had been sent out to watch the camp of the Lamanites.

So, while Joseph’s head was buried in a hat and reading the writing on his magic stone about the adventures of descendants of the Israelites, it just so happens that a word of Germanic origin is used to describe their actions. Never mind the formality of proper language and expression that we would expect from Israelite nationality, Joseph’s reading of the script is as casual as can be coming from a young country bumpkin. We are to understand that Smith translated so-called reformed Egyptian into English but doesn’t this take it a little too far knowing that the Nephites were not Germans? It’s clear that Smith got a little too casual in his telling and in a tongue twister he departing from the language of the KJV of the Bible, thus his magic rock gave him the wrong word. But really, the word rolled off his tongue from out of his imagination! It would have been more believable had he used a standard biblical word to express those actions.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by consiglieri »

I started to go to figure out the trick but gave up.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

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consiglieri wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 6:21 pm
I started to go to figure out the trick but gave up.

:o

You cheated! No fair, you looked at my cards and cheated. You can't possibly be that good. You have to have cheated.


Image

Mosiah 7:3 wrote:And it came to pass that on the morrow they started to go up, having with them one Ammon, he being a strong and mighty man, and a descendant of Zarahemla; and he was also their leader.
Mosiah 9:3 wrote:And yet, I being over-zealous to inherit the land of our fathers, collected as many as were desirous to go up to possess the land, and started again on our journey into the wilderness to go up to the land; but we were smitten with famine and sore afflictions; for we were slow to remember the Lord our God.
Alma 26:1 wrote:And now, these are the words of Ammon to his brethren, which say thus: My brothers and my brethren, behold I say unto you, how great reason have we to rejoice; for could we have supposed when we started from the land of Zarahemla that God would have granted unto us such great blessings?
Alma 57:28 wrote:And now it came to pass that after we had thus taken care of our wounded men, and had buried our dead and also the dead of the Lamanites, who were many, behold, we did inquire of Gid concerning the prisoners whom they had started to go down to the land of Zarahemla with.
Alma 57:30 wrote:And now, these are the words which Gid said unto me: Behold, we did start to go down to the land of Zarahemla with our prisoners. And it came to pass that we did meet the spies of our armies, who had been sent out to watch the camp of the Lamanites.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by Kishkumen »

I guess I am missing the significance of this.

Shrug.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

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Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:22 pm
I guess I am missing the significance of this.

Shrug.

Whether it is significant or insignificant is a matter of perspective. But there is a factor that has to be taken into consideration in order to better understand the word Smith used in the case of the five examples found within the entire corpus of holy writ!

Now that's incredible!

Shulem wrote:It’s rather obvious that Smith goofed in the Book of Mormon citations previously mentioned (Mosiah 7:3, 9:3, Alma 26:1, 57:28, 57:30). Common street talk snuck past the translator’s lips when abandoning standard biblical expression and failing to stick strictly with the KJV as his guide. Smith’s rock in the hat gave him the wrong word on the occasions cited above. But in reality, Smith never read any words off a rock. That was a lie -- or a trick too fool his scribes. The hat was a safe place to bury his head and think about his story. The stone was a diversion for his trick. The only thing Smith may have ever read in his hat were cribbed notes placed carefully at the bottom of the white stovepipe hat.

Here are a few examples of Smith’s street talk that match his goofs in the Book of Mormon:

Joseph Smith Letterbook 1 wrote:
  • Ziba started this day to go to across the Missouri River...
  • bro Oliver started for New York...
  • after they have started upon their Journey.

This serves as a perfect example of showing Smith being caught red-handed while contemplating geography in the Book of Mormon. He must have been having a difficult time keeping his story straight so he inadvertently slipped using a modern term which does not belong in the Book of Mormon.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

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So, people can translate with the words they ordinarily use. If Joseph used start in his own speech and in his translations, that’s natural. I don’t see this as a problem.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by Shulem »

Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:35 pm
So, people can translate with the words they ordinarily use. If Joseph used start in his own speech and in his translations, that’s natural. I don’t see this as a problem.

And that was the word that mysteriously appeared on the rock during translation?

No, my friend. The use of the word "start" is unnatural and was a mistake on Smith's part. It does not belong in the Book of Mormon and has no place in the Bible either. Smith got sloppy, don't you see that? He was keeping track of his story and chronology and at this point he got careless. Don't you see that?

Well, I do!
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by Kishkumen »

I would recommend that you devote a lot more time to cognitive science and philosophy before you express such unwarranted confidence on issues of this nature.

Whatever Joseph did was always at some point mediated by his own mind, even in his sight.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

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Kishkumen wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:50 pm
I would recommend that you devote a lot more time to cognitive science and philosophy before you express such unwarranted confidence on issues of this nature.

Whatever Joseph did was always at some point mediated by his own mind, even in his sight.

The point I would like to make is that Smith got sloppy with using the word "start" and he got arrogant when he used the word "adieu".

You don't see that because you're puffed up methink.

So there.
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Re: Shulem challenges RFM’s magical powers

Post by Shulem »

The translators of the King James Bible were careful in selecting the words in which to translate and obviously the word "START" was never ever employed. That would have been an anachronism. The English translation of the Bible is an English translation and it was commissioned by the king of England, NOT the prime minister of Germany or whatnot. Good gawd!

Joseph Smith faithfully and dutifully copied and emulated the King James Bible to a tee. The case of adieu was an arrogant transgression on his part. The five cases of "start" were goof ups. He should have used the appropriate word used in both the New and Old Testaments.

But Smith got sloppy and his mind wondered.
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