Shulem to a wider audience

[Shulem]

Go back and look at Oliver’s testimony of the translation process. This isn’t the testimony based upon a false witness (trickery).

I've carefully reviewed Oliver's testimony of the Egyptian vignettes from the papyrus and they are just flat wrong. I don't find Cowdery to be reliable about translations and interpretations of anything having to do with Egyptian hieroglyphics and vignettes. And yet, the Second Elder of the Church learned what he got from the First Elder of the Church. Both Elders were wrong!

Not wrong? Then tell me the King's name in Facsimile No. 3 and I'll concede my argument and tuck my tail and run.

[consiglieri]

Let me here make the unremarkable observation that it is always easier to fool a spectator who wants to be fooled.

[Shulem]

Let me here make the unremarkable observation that it is always easier to fool a spectator who wants to be fooled.

I seem to recall Harris was somewhat superstitious.

I tend to think that Cowdery sought spiritual outlets.

I tend to think Emma wanted to believe in her husband.

[consiglieri]

It is often surprising the mental gymnastics one will go through to continue believing something one wants to be true.

[Shulem]

It is often surprising the mental gymnastics one will go through to continue believing something one wants to be true.

MG does what he does because that's the way he does it. But I really wish he'd stop posting links to apologetic articles whether it's on geography or Egyptology and instead use what he knows about what's in those materials and confront me directly. He admits he's not an expert on Egyptology, and yeah, I get that. But he need not send me to Pearl of Great Price Central to make an argument that there is a another viewpoint which I may not know about. Since he's read that material then let him come here and engage me head on and tell me HOW Joseph Smith got it right and WHY I am wrong.

Anyway...

[MG 2.0]

It is often surprising the mental gymnastics one will go through to continue believing something one wants to be true.

Your podcast which tried to tie your experience with magic to Joseph’s Book of Mormon translation was a bit of the same.

To pull God and angels out of the picture you have to create some artificial hoops to jump through.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

It is often surprising the mental gymnastics one will go through to continue believing something one wants to be true.

MG does what he does because that's the way he does it. But I really wish he'd stop posting links to apologetic articles whether it's on geography or Egyptology and instead use what he knows about what's in those materials and confront me directly. He admits he's not an expert on Egyptology, and yeah, I get that. But he need not send me to Pearl of Great Price Central to make an argument that there is a another viewpoint which I may not know about. Since he's read that material then let him come here and engage me head on and tell me HOW Joseph Smith got it right and WHY I am wrong.

Anyway...

I appreciated that viewpoint, Shulem. The thing is, I don’t post here just for you.

The links I provide are also for others to do with what they will. Yes, I know you’re not going to look at each and every one. I think folks, including lurkers, ought to have access to more information, not less.

Some folks may not have even realized that there is a Pearl of Great Price Central.

The posts that I create are meant to be seen by others also. You, they, anyone, can choose to read or ignore.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Let me here make the unremarkable observation that it is always easier to fool a spectator who wants to be fooled.

That’s under the assumption that Oliver Cowdery was that type of individual. Again, you’re having to build a caricature that involves having to assign Oliver with motives that cut against the grain in regards to the actual historical record.

You have to assume that he’s a simple minded dupe that was not only duped once, but over and over and over again.

And you have no other options other than to believe this to be true.

Here’s Oliver’s testimony. Of course, you can take it or leave it.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... y?lang=eng

Regards.
MG

[Marcus]

It is often surprising the mental gymnastics one will go through to continue believing something one wants to be true.

MG does what he does because that's the way he does it. But I really wish he'd stop posting links to apologetic articles whether it's on geography or Egyptology and instead use what he knows about what's in those materials and confront me directly. He admits he's not an expert on Egyptology, and yeah, I get that. But he need not send me to Pearl of Great Price Central to make an argument that there is a another viewpoint which I may not know about. Since he's read that material then let him come here and engage me head on and tell me HOW Joseph Smith got it right and WHY I am wrong.

Anyway...

Especially since that site doesn’t seem to present full information at ALL.

Shulem, a question. If I recall correctly, the papyrus is missing for facsimile 3, and all we have is the drawn image made into the engraving, right?

[Shulem]

Shulem, a question. If I recall correctly, the papyrus is missing for facsimile 3, and all we have is the drawn image made into the engraving, right?

That's all we have. Facsimile No. 3 as published in the Times and Seasons provides the only imagery of everything of that particular vignette. The Kirtland Egyptian Papers have no other documentation for that vignette.