Shulem to a wider audience

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MG 2.0
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by MG 2.0 »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:12 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 8:14 pm


Your podcast which tried to tie your experience with magic to Joseph’s Book of Mormon translation was a bit of the same.😉

To pull God and angels out of the picture you have to create some artificial hoops to jump through.

Regards,
MG
God and angels are the artificial hoops.
Not quite sure where you’re going with that. Artificial = man made. In the case I’m presenting to consig. the hoops are things such as magician’s tricks, spiritualism, or automatic writing. These all rely on something other than God or angels.

Mankind has seemingly always had a predisposition to create ‘artifices’ of instruction or enlightenment which supplant the one and only true God. Of course, they are not going to readily admit that. God has ALWAYS had a hard time getting through to knuckleheads. 😁

But He has always made allowances for that.

These conversations are always inhibited by the proposition put forward by secularists that God cannot be known and/or that he doesn’t exist except in the minds of those that ‘need’ god.

My personal belief is that God is real. He exists. If God exists then it’s not far fetched to think that other ‘beings of light’ also exist. So I start with that presupposition. Immediately I and other believers are at odds with secularists who have a leg up in the sense that there are no actual proofs for a creator God.

So yeah, Philo, from where you’re sitting nowadays you are looking at the God which LDS folks worship as being essentially manufactured by a select group of shamans.

I disagree. I think God/Christ reveals Himself at times in human history and did so to Joseph Smith and others. Of various religious persuasions and systems of belief.

A secularist is going to ALWAYS choose the white hat and the magic hands of Joseph Smith over a God inspired translation of the Book of Mormon. What choice do you really have? Your options are severely limited or nonexistent.

Regards,
MG
Philo Sofee
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG
God has ALWAYS had a hard time getting through to knuckleheads.
Yeah his power of communication and ability to help folks see truth really does suck all right. He always allows far more cheaters, phony prophets, apostles and apologists to lie about dang near everything in order to get us to believe in him. Apparently the solution is just too difficult for God to solve, considering the claim of how important it is to him for people to actually believe in him... Perhaps he ought to hire a PR person for himself or something, I dunno... it's obviously vastly too difficult for him to actually give real information about where the Book of Mormon actually happened or actually point to where actual Nephite or Lamanite remains exist so as to get us started on the path to actual knowledge instead of a knowledge based on gaslighting, innuendo and outright lying... poor God, so difficult to actually share physical knowledge with folks.
doubtingthomas
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by doubtingthomas »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:53 pm
That they could have been deceived through magician’s tricks during the length and breadth of the Book of Mormon translation is a far fetched theory.

Smith didn't have to use magic tricks, all he needed was the ability to memorize large passages. I am far more impressed with Tomoyori.

"The Guinness Book of World Records reports that in 1981 Rajan Srinavasen Mahadevan (known as Rajan) recited the first 31,811 digits of pi from memory and that in 1987 Hideaki Tomoyori broke that record by reciting the first 40,000 digits."
https://www.encyclopedia.com/psychology ... mnemonists
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doubtingthomas
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by doubtingthomas »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:13 am
A secularist is going to ALWAYS choose the white hat and the magic hands of Joseph Smith over a God inspired translation of the Book of Mormon. What choice do you really have?
Memory!
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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MG 2.0
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by MG 2.0 »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:19 am
MG
God has ALWAYS had a hard time getting through to knuckleheads.
Yeah his power of communication and ability to help folks see truth really does suck all right. He always allows far more cheaters, phony prophets, apostles and apologists to lie about dang near everything in order to get us to believe in him. Apparently the solution is just too difficult for God to solve, considering the claim of how important it is to him for people to actually believe in him... Perhaps he ought to hire a PR person for himself or something, I dunno... it's obviously vastly too difficult for him to actually give real information about where the Book of Mormon actually happened or actually point to where actual Nephite or Lamanite remains exist so as to get us started on the path to actual knowledge instead of a knowledge based on gaslighting, innuendo and outright lying... poor God, so difficult to actually share physical knowledge with folks.
Knucklehead. :D

Open up and start reading the Book of Mormon again and praying/listening to the prophets. Obey the commandments.

If you choose secularism and it’s associated philosophies that’s going to be your preferred home.

Truly, Philo, do your own thing. I’m not coming down on you. Like I said, my belief is that God is/has made a way for you to achieve that potential which is yours to reach.

Not everyone is made in the image of LDS’ism. Some folks need/want to have that beer or that glass of wine.😉

The natural man is a beast!!

Regards,
MG
Philo Sofee
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:38 am
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:19 am


Yeah his power of communication and ability to help folks see truth really does suck all right. He always allows far more cheaters, phony prophets, apostles and apologists to lie about dang near everything in order to get us to believe in him. Apparently the solution is just too difficult for God to solve, considering the claim of how important it is to him for people to actually believe in him... Perhaps he ought to hire a PR person for himself or something, I dunno... it's obviously vastly too difficult for him to actually give real information about where the Book of Mormon actually happened or actually point to where actual Nephite or Lamanite remains exist so as to get us started on the path to actual knowledge instead of a knowledge based on gaslighting, innuendo and outright lying... poor God, so difficult to actually share physical knowledge with folks.
Knucklehead. :D

Open up and start reading the Book of Mormon again and praying/listening to the prophets. Obey the commandments.

If you choose secularism and it’s associated philosophies that’s going to be your preferred home.

Truly, Philo, do your own thing. I’m not coming down on you. Like I said, my belief is that God is/has made a way for you to achieve that potential which is yours to reach.

Not everyone is made in the image of LDS’ism. Some folks need/want to have that beer or that glass of wine.😉

The natural man is a beast!!

Regards,
MG
:lol: I was just agreeing with you MG... God cannot communicate much at all with folks. He ain't got much ability, as I think it's obvious looking at how things are going.
Marcus
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Marcus »

Rivendale wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:19 pm
consiglieri wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:18 pm


This is similar to what Uri Geller said when exposed by James Randi.

“Just because Randi can duplicate my effect by magic doesn’t mean the way I do it is not supernatural.”

It’s an argument with a long pedigree.
Wait. MG 2.0 left out demons. Demons do magic all the time. Whenever the trick can't be explained it has to be demons.
Also aliens. Obvs their advanced technology would look like magic.

So, we have magicians, angels, demons, and aliens. I draw the line at Yetis though. Not enough manual dexterity to engrave metal plates.
doubtingthomas
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by doubtingthomas »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:13 am
the magic hands of Joseph Smith.
I'll tell you how Magic Smith did it. Smith grabbed his rocks and had to open it. Smith couldn't see in the dark, so he had a hard time plugging it, but Emma helped him.
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doubtingthomas
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by doubtingthomas »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:40 am
God cannot communicate much at all with folks. He ain't got much ability, as I think it's obvious looking at how things are going.
I think god does talk to MG. Hopefully his doctor knows.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Shulem
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Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Shulem »

Joseph Smith did not have in his possession a genuine scroll written by the very hand of Abraham. Neither did Moses or Elijah appear before him in the Kirtland temple. All these claims were something he made up to advance his spiritual claims of being a prophet.

Presently, the Church gives MG a choice regarding the papyrus:

1. Missing Roll
2. Catalyst Theory

BOTH can't be true but the Church grants its members to pick the one they like the best. The Church does this because the prophets refuses to make a choice and are like a wave of the sea driven by the wind and tossed.

Isn't that right, MG? You too are like a wave of the sea in a Church that pretends to guide its people through divine revelation when in fact its main business is to remind members to keep the rules if they want to remain members in good standing.
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