Shulem to a wider audience

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
consiglieri
Prophet
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:48 am

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by consiglieri »

There are often multiple ways a trick can be performed.

The simplest way for Joseph Smith to have gotten the notes in the hat would be to simply palm them.

Palming is an art form. But even for the beginner, it is made simpler by holding something else in the same hand doing the palming. That way the slight curl of the hand needed to palm is disguised by holding something else.

Say something like a rock.

The rock is placed in the hat and the palmed notes go in with it too. Any adjustment of the notes needed once inside the hat is covered by pretending to adjust the stone at the bottom. Nobody else can see into the bottom of the hat.

The hat is now “loaded” with the notes and a new translation session commences.

At the end of the session, the stone is removed along with the notes, once again palmed.

The stone is put in the pocket where the notes are released as well under cover of putting the stone in the pocket.

The empty hand is now removed and everything may be handed out for inspection.

You are “clean,” as we say in the biz.

That’s one obvious way the trick could have been performed.
drumdude
God
Posts: 5219
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 5:29 am

Re: Pick one!

Post by drumdude »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:21 am
drumdude wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:55 pm
Hence my Hogwarts analogy.
That evidence of the Lehites both entered and exited at Gate 9 3/4?
I have been given a special witness of it.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Shulem »

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 3:10 pm
The hat is now “loaded” with the notes and a new translation session commences.

A loaded hat and supernatural means through a so-called seer stone are things a trickster would use to woo and fool those who are doing his bidding. Claims of channeling God using this kind of spiritual backdrop while all along the gold plates remain safely hidden under a cloth is absolutely unbelievable. I would not have fallen for that. If I was there, I would have grabbed the cloth, swiped it away, and called the prophet's bluff. The consequences of that action would probably result in getting knocked over and wrestled to the ground. So be it, at least I would have stood up for what was right.
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by MG 2.0 »

Moksha wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:48 am
MG wrote:Is Facsimile 3 a Presentation Scene or a Judgement Scene?
It is a symbolic representation of the Egyptian afterlife belief journey.
There are some folks that have determined that it may be a presentation scene. If so, that makes a difference. At least in my limited understanding.

The facsimile #3 with Abraham would not be an aberration.

Regards,
MG
consiglieri
Prophet
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:48 am

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by consiglieri »

Waiting for MG to comment on my explanation of the trick.
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by MG 2.0 »

Shulem wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:37 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:26 am


Anubis' nose was hacked off, regardless of what kind of scene it is.

Exactly. Why bother asking me whether it's a Presentation or Judgement scene? It makes no difference what scene it is because the person is Anubis, a god of ancient Egypt who lives in Egyptian heaven. It's NOT an earthly scene! It's found within the heavenly stars above. The vindicated Hor, whose heart has already been judged is being ushered in and presented to the god's family and will live in heaven forever.

I suspect this is simply a diversion on MG's part, a typical apologetic response designed to reflect, deflect, and change the subject. Apologists often do that when they are uncomfortable about particulars that question the authenticity of their founding prophet's revelations. MG should know by now that I don't fall for that kind of stuff. I'm far too experienced and focused in what I do to fall for that.

Come on, MG, you know me better than that. I'm a like laser beam and never take my eyes of the ball. And the ball, in this case, is the snout that was brutally hacked off the face of Anubis all for the purpose of covering up Smith's prior error in defining that person as a slave when in fact he knew him to be more than that.
I am no expert Egyptology. I do look for and try and understand alternatives. Whether or not Fac.#3 is a presentation scene would make a difference in how the narrative of the scene is interpreted.

https://www.pearlofgreatpricecentral.or ... ion-scene/

The whole Anubis thing that is central to your ‘fraud’ argument I can’t speak to. But I do see a valid argument in looking at the facsimile from a ‘different angle’, so to speak.

Kevin Barney, years ago, had some interesting views. Others along the way have also. I’m willing to keep my eyes and ears open to further light and knowledge rather than closing myself off.

And I’ll leave it at that.

Regards,
MG
MG 2.0
God
Posts: 3628
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2021 4:45 pm

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by MG 2.0 »

consiglieri wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:34 pm
Waiting for MG to comment on my explanation of the trick.
First reaction? How did Joseph do that day after day with multiple scribes without slipping up? Sooner or later Oliver would have caught on. This wasn’t a one off ‘trick’. Oliver, especially, would have seen through the ruse.

Go back and look at Oliver’s testimony of the translation process. This isn’t the testimony based upon a false witness (trickery).

I think you’re having to really stretch with the whole magician thing. But hey, what other alternatives do you really have unless you want to either go full on spiritualism or automatic writing?

I say, God did it. 🙂

Regards,
MG
consiglieri
Prophet
Posts: 842
Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:48 am

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by consiglieri »

That’s exactly what you are supposed to say.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:38 pm
The whole Anubis thing that is central to your ‘fraud’ argument I can’t speak to. But I do see a valid argument in looking at the facsimile from a ‘different angle’, so to speak.

No, the mutilation of Anubis is NOT central to my argument. My argument is that the scene takes place in HEAVEN among the Egyptian gods and that the person Hor is dead. Central to my argument is that Abraham has nothing to do with the sacred rites of the ancient Egyptian religion and his name is not found on the Facsimile and neither is a King's name. Everything Joseph Smith said about Facsimile No. 3 is wrong. It was uninspired nonsense on his part.

I don't give a rat's ass what Kevin Barney says. Pearl of Great Price Central in my view is a whorehouse. You best stay out of there because they will pollute your mind. They are playing the whore as they sell their souls.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 7090
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Shulem to a wider audience

Post by Shulem »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:47 pm
First reaction? How did Joseph do that day after day with multiple scribes without slipping up? Sooner or later Oliver would have caught on. This wasn’t a one off ‘trick’. Oliver, especially, would have seen through the ruse.

I tend to think the first acts are the most important because that is when the magician has to fool his audience and gain their trust. Once the trick has been established and the audience is following exactly what the magician wants them to observe then it becomes a matter of habit in keeping them hooked and the trick just seems natural. Once the audience is tricked they stop looking for tricks because they believe it's real.
Post Reply