LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

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Marcus
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Marcus »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:47 pm
Bishops and other LDS leaders don’t contact local authorities (to what degree I don’t know) when they are made aware of sexual abuse. But it’s not always against the law to fail to report such a crime, the way it might be for a school official or human resources manager.

In Utah, for example, there is an exemption for religious leaders to report abuse or neglect. The law currently reads:
When any individual, including an individual licensed under Title 58, Chapter 31b, Nurse Practice Act, or Title 58, Chapter 67, Utah Medical Practice Act, has reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect, or observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances that would reasonably result in abuse or neglect, that individual shall immediately report the alleged abuse or neglect to the nearest peace officer, law enforcement agency, or office of the division.
… the notification requirement described in Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a member of the clergy, with regard to any confession made to the member of the clergy while functioning in the ministerial capacity of the member of the clergy and without the consent of the individual making the confession…
House Bill 90, which would eliminate the exemption for religious leaders, was struck down at the Utah state Capitol in March of 2020.

https://law enforcement.utah.gov/~2020/bills/static/HB0090.html

(Rep. Romero is awesome, by the way) - https://house.utleg.gov/rep/ROMERAY/

Anyway, what’s even more disturbing, while the Mormon Church maintains a 24-hour hotline for leadership to report abuse and learn their local laws around contacting authorities, the Cult has been accused of using the hotline to silence victims instead. Why? Forgiveness Cult-ure. Victims are actively encouraged to forgive their abusers, which of course allows them to find new victims. It’s B.S..

- Doc
Exactly.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:51 pm
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:47 pm
Bishops and other LDS leaders don’t contact local authorities (to what degree I don’t know) when they are made aware of sexual abuse.
There you go. More assumptions, less studies.
I don’t believe you read the entirety of my post.

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1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by doubtingthomas »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:57 pm

Exactly.
Evidence? And what cases are LDS leaders in Utah refusing to report? Cases of 18 year olds dating 15 year olds?
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:58 pm
I don’t believe you read the entirety of my post.
We need the stats, or at least some government report.
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Ok. You didn’t read my post. This is the aggravating thing with posters who skim and then just spout off. Enjoy your circle jerk, bro.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by doubtingthomas »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:47 pm
In Utah, for example, there is an exemption for religious leaders to report abuse or neglect. T
House Bill 90, which would eliminate the exemption for religious leaders, was struck down at the Utah state Capitol in March of 2020.
Sad, but it doesn't mean the "Cult" is "using the hotline to silence victims instead." Can you prove it? I'm all ears.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:08 pm
Ok. You didn’t read my post. This is the aggravating thing with posters who skim and then just spout off. Enjoy your circle jerk, bro.

- Doc
Well, at least I am not in your QAnon circle.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:37 pm
doubtingthomas wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:37 pm
But oh well, I guess feelings and revelations by the Holy Ghost are more important.
Said to an atheist. :roll:
Anyway,
IHAQ wrote:
Tue Mar 29, 2022 8:16 am

https://www.crainsdetroit.com/news/form ... nal-sexual

The Church needs to acknowledge and embrace that it has a problem as big (if not bigger) as the Catholic Church has been facing with sexual predators gaining positions of trust and responsibility. The Church still doesn’t run background checks before appointing people to leadership positions with responsibility for minors.
Or require fingerprinting, If I recall correctly. Our volunteer organization required that, also.
I do believe that I had to be fingerprinted to chaperone field trips as well.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:47 pm
Bishops and other LDS leaders don’t contact local authorities (to what degree I don’t know) when they are made aware of sexual abuse. But it’s not always against the law to fail to report such a crime, the way it might be for a school official or human resources manager.

In Utah, for example, there is an exemption for religious leaders to report abuse or neglect. The law currently reads:
When any individual, including an individual licensed under Title 58, Chapter 31b, Nurse Practice Act, or Title 58, Chapter 67, Utah Medical Practice Act, has reason to believe that a child has been subjected to abuse or neglect, or observes a child being subjected to conditions or circumstances that would reasonably result in abuse or neglect, that individual shall immediately report the alleged abuse or neglect to the nearest peace officer, law enforcement agency, or office of the division.
… the notification requirement described in Subsection (1)(a) does not apply to a member of the clergy, with regard to any confession made to the member of the clergy while functioning in the ministerial capacity of the member of the clergy and without the consent of the individual making the confession…
House Bill 90, which would eliminate the exemption for religious leaders, was struck down at the Utah state Capitol in March of 2020.

https://law enforcement.utah.gov/~2020/bills/static/HB0090.html

(Rep. Romero is awesome, by the way) - https://house.utleg.gov/rep/ROMERAY/

Anyway, what’s even more disturbing, while the Mormon Church maintains a 24-hour hotline for leadership to report abuse and learn their local laws around contacting authorities, the Cult has been accused of using the hotline to silence victims instead. Why? Forgiveness Cult-ure. Victims are actively encouraged to forgive their abusers, which of course allows them to find new victims. It’s B.S..

- Doc
There is another subsection of the Utah law that applies:


(3) Subject to Subsection (4), the reporting requirement described in Subsection (1) does not apply to:
(a) a member of the clergy, with regard to any confession made to the member of the clergy while functioning in the ministerial capacity of the member of the clergy and without the consent of the individual making the confession, if:
(i) the perpetrator made the confession directly to the member of the clergy; and
(ii) the member of the clergy is, under canon law or church doctrine or practice, bound to maintain the confidentiality of that confession; or
(b) an attorney, or an individual employed by the attorney, if the knowledge or belief of the suspected abuse or neglect of a child arises from the representation of a client, unless the attorney is permitted to reveal the suspected abuse or neglect of the child to prevent reasonably certain death or substantial bodily harm in accordance with Utah Rules of Professional Conduct, Rule 1.6.
(4)
(a) When a member of the clergy receives information about abuse or neglect from any source other than confession of the perpetrator, the member of the clergy is required to report that information even though the member of the clergy may have also received information about abuse or neglect from the confession of the perpetrator.
(b) Exemption of the reporting requirement for an individual described in Subsection (3) does not exempt the individual from any other efforts required by law to prevent further abuse or neglect by the perpetrator.


The current Utah law is actually a little tougher on LDS bishops than the law in my state. Washington defines certain categories of people as mandatory reporters. Clergy is not one of them. And, the priest-penitent privilege is fully recognized in Washington. A bishop in Utah who receives a confession of child abuse but does nothing to investigate or take steps to protect the child may be in deep weeds anyway. All that's protected is the confession, which is also true in most states.

I've heard claims about the hot line, but I don't think we know what routinely happens when a bishop calls it. K&M represents the church, and so its lawyerly duties are owed to the church. I would expect that the person who answers the hotline informs the bishop of the legal requirements. I would be surprised that lawyers would be talking about forgiveness in place of legal requirements. That would be malpractice. I suspect the forgiveness culture exists by custom and is nourished by bishops, stake presidents, etc. and not the legal counsel.
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Marcus
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Marcus »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:31 pm
Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:37 pm

Said to an atheist. :roll:
Anyway,

Or require fingerprinting, If I recall correctly. Our volunteer organization required that, also.
I do believe that I had to be fingerprinted to chaperone field trips as well.
Was that a public school? If so, I’m glad to hear it. The transition to requiring so much of volunteers was time-consuming (this was maybe 15 years back at my kid’s Catholic school), but now, it just seems to be a given in parents being involved in all schools. That’s a great thing, in my opinion.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Res Ipsa »

Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:05 pm
Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:31 pm


I do believe that I had to be fingerprinted to chaperone field trips as well.
Was that a public school? If so, I’m glad to hear it. The transition to requiring so much of volunteers was time-consuming (this was maybe 15 years back at my kid’s Catholic school), but now, it just seems to be a given in parents being involved in all schools. That’s a great thing, in my opinion.
Yes, it was a public school. I think it's pretty routine now in public schools, at least in Washington. It's been a few years, but I think I had to be fingerprinted once (done at at a State Patrol office, I think). Then the background check was done yearly, including traffic violations if I was going to be driving students in my car. We almost always had buses, so not really an issue.

I agree that it's a great thing. If a sexual predator wants to get access to kids, volunteering in organizations where kids are is an effective way to do it. It's lots easier and quicker to volunteer than get a teaching degree! So, screening volunteers is a fairly easy way to reduce risk. It won't catch those that haven't been caught before, but it weeds out repeat offenders through deterrence and checking records.

Transition would be a hassle, but I think the risk reduction is more than worth it.
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Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Doctor Steuss »

Res Ipsa wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:14 pm
Marcus wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:05 pm

Was that a public school? If so, I’m glad to hear it. The transition to requiring so much of volunteers was time-consuming (this was maybe 15 years back at my kid’s Catholic school), but now, it just seems to be a given in parents being involved in all schools. That’s a great thing, in my opinion.
Yes, it was a public school. I think it's pretty routine now in public schools, at least in Washington. It's been a few years, but I think I had to be fingerprinted once (done at at a State Patrol office, I think).
An additional personal anecdote/confirmation.

Here in NV, I had to get fingerprinted at the main metro PD station, followed by a background check, to be able to read stories at my son's public school. I don't know if this is a state requirement, district policy, or at the principals discretion though.
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