LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
LittleNipper
Nursery
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2022 5:49 pm

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by LittleNipper »

Fence Sitter wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:50 pm
LittleNipper wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 1:24 am
What is really sad is that homosexuals will have all sorts of excuses as to why this wasn't a homosexual act.
What is really sad is such an ugly display of bigotry by someone claiming to be a Christian.
Ugly is as ugly does. Bigotry is the obstinate or unreasonable attachment towards a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership to a particular group. People should be judged on what they accomplish and not by how they look. Looks generally cannot be changed; however, actions and behavior can. As a Christian, one is accountable to GOD and not man's values nor opinions. Everyone must examine himself in the light of GOD's Word.
cinepro
CTR B
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 am

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by cinepro »

IHAQ wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:49 pm
Background checks, when done properly, do more than simply check for a criminal history. They can show other red flags that should make a person pause before allowing them unfettered access to minors who are groomed to believe they can always trust a “called” adult male.
What are you talking about? I run the background checks for our local youth soccer league and all they check is a criminal history. Where would you get "other red flags" on a background check? Seriously, what do you think a background check (for youth volunteers) is?
IHAQ wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:49 pm
Would you send your child to a school that had the same safeguarding policies and track record as the Church? Your answer should be no, and for good reason.
As far as I know, none of my children have ever been molested. If you told me one of them had and told me to guess where it happened based on my understanding of the statistics and their activities, I would guess in this order:

1. Relative
2. Friend or relative of friend (my wife never allowed sleepovers at friends' houses, so the risk is reduced there).
3. Scouts or youth sport leader or other recreational leader. (very unlikely since I was usually their coaches or Scout leaders, and when I wasn't I don't think they had much, if any, time alone with adults).
4. School (very unlikely since they had little, if any, alone time with adults at school that I know of).
5. Church (extremely unlikely because they had little, if any, alone time with adults that I know of).
6. Random person they didn't know.

So to answer your question more directly, I do think my kids were more likely to be abused at school than at Church, but I still sent them to school because I considered the risk to be extremely low.

How Many Kids Are Sexually Abused by Their Teachers? Probably millions.
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by IHAQ »

cinepro wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:35 pm
IHAQ wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:49 pm
Background checks, when done properly, do more than simply check for a criminal history. They can show other red flags that should make a person pause before allowing them unfettered access to minors who are groomed to believe they can always trust a “called” adult male.
What are you talking about? I run the background checks for our local youth soccer league and all they check is a criminal history. Where would you get "other red flags" on a background check? Seriously, what do you think a background check (for youth volunteers) is?
IHAQ wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 12:49 pm
Would you send your child to a school that had the same safeguarding policies and track record as the Church? Your answer should be no, and for good reason.
As far as I know, none of my children have ever been molested. If you told me one of them had and told me to guess where it happened based on my understanding of the statistics and their activities, I would guess in this order:

1. Relative
2. Friend or relative of friend (my wife never allowed sleepovers at friends' houses, so the risk is reduced there).
3. Scouts or youth sport leader or other recreational leader. (very unlikely since I was usually their coaches or Scout leaders, and when I wasn't I don't think they had much, if any, time alone with adults).
4. School (very unlikely since they had little, if any, alone time with adults at school that I know of).
5. Church (extremely unlikely because they had little, if any, alone time with adults that I know of).
6. Random person they didn't know.

So to answer your question more directly, I do think my kids were more likely to be abused at school than at Church, but I still sent them to school because I considered the risk to be extremely low.

How Many Kids Are Sexually Abused by Their Teachers? Probably millions.
Background checks can cover a multitude of things, not just criminal records. Things like employment history, the record of where people have lived etc. The main point being that predators will be put off from joining the church or seeking a calling where they know their background is going to be looked into. Even if there’s no criminal record they will not want to be scrutinised so they will move on to take their chances with an easier target. Background checks are an additional deterrent. There’s no good reason not to do them. None. Yet the Church doesn’t bother.

Youth sport is another rich hunting ground for predators. As can be seen from numerous news stories in the UK over recent years. I hope that as well as running background checks on coaches you have a clear safeguarding policy and whistle blowing policy - one of the ways the predators in professional youth soccer academies got away with it for so long was because the kids were afraid to speak up, and when they did the grown ups didn’t take them seriously or wanted to protect the offending adult. Ask your local Bishop what the Church’s safeguarding policy is…

Cases you hear about in the Church bear very similar hallmarks. It’s a massive problem in the Church (which is being actively covered up) and it’s not being taken seriously enough. Which is why offending still happens.
cinepro
CTR B
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 am

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by cinepro »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 9:22 am
Background checks can cover a multitude of things, not just criminal records. Things like employment history, the record of where people have lived etc.
I've done background checks for youth sports and I run them for employment at my job, and there is nothing in a background check that will tell you if a person is a child molester (or potential child molester) if they haven't been caught before.

I'm not saying the Church shouldn't do them. I'm just saying that I think people drastically misunderstand what they are, and how effective they would be at stopping these things from happening when it appears to almost always be people that haven't been caught before. It would be a false sense of security.

The most critical thing that can be done is to ensure that kids aren't alone with adults in situations that could lead to abuse (and no, I don't consider Bishop's interviews in the Bishop's office to be one of those situations). As far as I can tell, any abuse that happens in Church (or Scouts) is because this key policy was not followed.
IHAQ
God
Posts: 1533
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:00 am

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by IHAQ »

cinepro wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:05 pm
The most critical thing that can be done is to ensure that kids aren't alone with adults in situations that could lead to abuse (and no, I don't consider Bishop's interviews in the Bishop's office to be one of those situations). As far as I can tell, any abuse that happens in Church (or Scouts) is because this key policy was not followed.
I’m staggered. You do understand how grooming happens, right?
doubtingthomas
God
Posts: 2769
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:04 pm

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by doubtingthomas »

LittleNipper wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:57 pm
Everyone must examine himself in the light of GOD's Word.
I think one is bigger than the other, is that normal?
Last edited by doubtingthomas on Sun Apr 10, 2022 6:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 5810
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Moksha »

LittleNipper wrote:
Thu Mar 31, 2022 4:57 pm
As a Christian, one is accountable to God and not man's values or opinions.
Sovereign Citizens of the universe, eh? So which God? Your's or the one affiliated with Kirton McConkie?
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
Chap
God
Posts: 2308
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:42 am
Location: On the imaginary axis

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Chap »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:28 pm
cinepro wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:05 pm
The most critical thing that can be done is to ensure that kids aren't alone with adults in situations that could lead to abuse (and no, I don't consider Bishop's interviews in the Bishop's office to be one of those situations). As far as I can tell, any abuse that happens in Church (or Scouts) is because this key policy was not followed.
I’m staggered. You do understand how grooming happens, right?
Yup. This is jaw dropping. So the Bishop's office is some kind of guaranteed 'safe space'? Why? A place where adult men in a position of authority get to quiz teenagers on their sexual feelings and behaviour in a one-on-one situation?

No gif could get anywhere near expressing my incredulity.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
cinepro
CTR B
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2020 6:34 am

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by cinepro »

IHAQ wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:28 pm
I’m staggered. You do understand how grooming happens, right?
Yes, I do. That's why I'm not worried about Bishop's interviews.

How are you defining "grooming"?
Marcus
God
Posts: 5034
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: LDS Scout Leader charged with several counts of criminal sexual conduct.

Post by Marcus »

cinepro wrote:
Mon Apr 11, 2022 4:34 am
IHAQ wrote:
Mon Apr 04, 2022 8:28 pm
I’m staggered. You do understand how grooming happens, right?
Yes, I do. That's why I'm not worried about Bishop's interviews….
I would be. Here’s this Bishop:
September 2008, LDS Church bishop Timothy McCleve pleaded guilty to sexually molesting children from his ward.[2] He was sentenced in December 2008 to 1–15 year prison terms for the abuse.[3]
And this one…
In March 2010, former LDS Church bishop,Lon Kennard Sr. was charged with 43 felony counts of sex abuse and sexual exploitation of children, and was imprisoned in Wasatch County, Utah. In November 2011, Kennard was sentenced to three terms of five-years-to-life in prison to be served consecutively, after pleading guilty to three first-degree felony counts of aggravated sex abuse of a child for sexually abusing his daughters.[4][5]
And also this Bishop…
December 2013, LDS Church bishop Todd Michael Edwards was sentenced to three years in prison for molesting two teenage girls who attended his congregation in Menifee, California. Edwards received two concurrent sentences of three years in prison for two felony counts of sexual battery and sexual penetration with a foreign object. A felony charge of witness intimidation was dismissed as part of a plea bargain with prosecutors after Edwards pleaded not guilty.[7]
And this Bishop…
former LDS Church bishop Erik Hughes pleaded guilty to sexually abusing two teenage boys from his congregation in Mapleton, Utah. The abuse occurred in June 2014 during his tenure as bishop. Hughes received concurrent 1–15 year prison sentences on the sexual abuse counts, and 0–5 years in prison for witness tampering.[10]
All quotes are from the wiki site, defined as such: “Mormon abuse cases are cases of confirmed and alleged abuse by churches in the Latter Day Saint movement and its agents, including child sexual abuse.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_abuse_cases

I’ve seen your posts in the past, here and on MD&D, about the ritual sex abuse accusations in Utah. I know that you know exactly what grooming is. Why you are being so inappropriately obtuse about this topic now is beyond me.
Post Reply