which one would be superior:
A God that can create Gods?
Or, a God that can't create Gods?
What you're doing is equivocating the sense of "God" in your comparison.
The Mormon god is, in essence, a very powerful man, something akin to the Greek gods, or super angels in Hebrew/Islamic/Hindu theology. A derivative being.
OTOH, the Christian/Hebrew/Hindu/Islamic idea of God is the Ground of All Being, the fundamental ontology from which all else is derived.
Naturally, the Ground of All Being cannot "reproduce itself" and create another Ground of All Being.
Hope that helps
--Bill
Last edited by bill4long on Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:01 pm, edited 6 times in total.
The views and opinions expressed by Bill4Long could be wrong and are subject to change at any time. Viewer discretion is advised.
What you're doing is equivocating the sense of "God" in your comparison.
The Mormon god is, in essence, a very powerful man, something akin to the Greek gods, or super angels in Hebrew/Islamic/Hindu theology. A derivative being.
OTOH, the Christian/Hebrew/Hindu/Islamic idea of God is the Ground of All Being, the fundamental ontology from which all else is derived.
Naturally, the Ground of All Being cannot "reproduce itself" and create another Ground of All Being.
Hope that helps
--Bill
Nicely put, bill4long, and I agree. The Mormon Deity is like a high-ranking angel. In fact, I would say that angels are crucial to understanding early Mormon theology. What is missing from LDS theology is that Ground of All Being. Much more could be done to expound upon those things, if someone were so inclined. At times it is difficult to differentiate between an angel and God in the Bible itself, which means there is probably some room for working the details of these relationships out. Somewhere between the Axial Age and Late Antiquity the idea that a Supreme Deity co-existed with lesser beings that were nevertheless far superior to humankind was more or less worked out. Since then the whole system fell into confusion thanks to the split of Christianity into so many different versions. All that is left in the general public consciousness is the insistence on the Trinity as essential, and everything else is just heretical, including Mormonism.
As a mental exercise I find that situation completely unsatisfactory. If anything, theology has devolved over the centuries.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
What you're doing is equivocating the sense of "God" in your comparison.
The Mormon god is, in essence, a very powerful man, something akin to the Greek gods, or super angels in Hebrew/Islamic/Hindu theology. A derivative being.
OTOH, the Christian/Hebrew/Hindu/Islamic idea of God is the Ground of All Being, the fundamental ontology from which all else is derived.
Naturally, the Ground of All Being cannot "reproduce itself" and create another Ground of All Being.
Hope that helps
--Bill
Nicely put, bill4long, and I agree. The Mormon Deity is like a high-ranking angel. In fact, I would say that angels are crucial to understanding early Mormon theology. What is missing from LDS theology is that Ground of All Being. Much more could be done to expound upon those things, if someone were so inclined. At times it is difficult to differentiate between an angel and God in the Bible itself, which means there is probably some room for working the details of these relationships out. Somewhere between the Axial Age and Late Antiquity the idea that a Supreme Deity co-existed with lesser beings that were nevertheless far superior to humankind was more or less worked out. Since then the whole system fell into confusion thanks to the split of Christianity into so many different versions. All that is left in the general public consciousness is the insistence on the Trinity as essential, and everything else is just heretical, including Mormonism.
As a mental exercise I find that situation completely unsatisfactory. If anything, theology has devolved over the centuries.
Kishkumen, I have a memory though faint of the idea of divine ground existing eternally as a foundation for divinization being considered in my LDS seminary class. I think it may have been in the Lectures on Faith or perhaps an early Mormon theological thinker whose name is escaping me at the moment. Perhaps later I will research. (connected to the church magazine and not always orthodox)
Even with my rusty memory the idea of born as spirit children in a preexistence is not forgetable. It appeared so often it seemed beyond question. I was a little surprised by your observation that it is a Brigham Young idea. I agree with your sense that it is an awkward idea at best. It does give spirit a family dimension. It might be best not to lose that.
Kishkumen, I have a memory though faint of the idea of divine ground existing eternally as a foundation for divinization being considered in my LDS seminary class. I think it may have been in the Lectures on Faith or perhaps an early Mormon theological thinker whose name is escaping me at the moment. Perhaps later I will research. (connected to the church magazine and not always orthodox)
See Orson Pratt's, the Seer. (He and Brigham didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things.)
--Bill
The views and opinions expressed by Bill4Long could be wrong and are subject to change at any time. Viewer discretion is advised.
Kishkumen, I have a memory though faint of the idea of divine ground existing eternally as a foundation for divinization being considered in my LDS seminary class. I think it may have been in the Lectures on Faith or perhaps an early Mormon theological thinker whose name is escaping me at the moment. Perhaps later I will research. (connected to the church magazine and not always orthodox)
See Orson Pratt's, the Seer. (He and Brigham didn't see eye to eye on a lot of things.)
Some years ago in an elders quorum lesson I remember someone commenting that when they became a god they would create a world dedicated to hunting. I’ve always liked this idea, that as a god you could create worlds to pursue any side hobbies or interests. Trampoline world, wood-working world, beercraft world, doggie-heaven world, etc. As a Mormon god the possibilities are almost endless. When staring the monotony of an eternity of the business aspects of Godhood in the face, having worlds just for fun probably helps relieve the stress of managing an infinite posterity.
I'm under the impression that there will only be vegetarians as there were in Eden and before the Flood.
Convincing mormondialogue members that they are crazy is called gaslighting and it's a dick move.
Convincing them that there are robots living among us with artificial intelligence and implanted false memories is called bladerunning-gaslighting and it's a Philip K. Dick move.
"I'm on paid sabbatical from BYU in exchange for my promise to use this time to finish two books."
One can see why to confusion arises. The concession is minor to the point of being negligible, but the situation is so bad that even the faintest glimmer of hope might seem like a big deal—if you could only figure out what it is exactly.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
