Gaslighting Planets

[Kishkumen]

Hmmm. Was post-fall Adam gullible? He wasn't the one that fell for the religion the protestant preacher learned from Lucifer.

Maybe Adam overprioritized the truth. Who's to say his life wouldn't have been better had he joined the community that was led by the confused preacher and Lucifer? They were all fine people, I'm sure.

Maybe he was simplistic. Naïve. Simple minded. Callow. Sophomoric.

Post-fall Adam was many things. But he was not gullible.

Hmmm. OK, so not gullible enough that when the devil shows up with horns and a barbed tail Adam is going to fall for it. I take that level of sophistication to be very helpful to Gods who need a set-up for moving Adam in the direction They want him to go. Poor, gullible Adam never even realized that this devil was a prop.

[Analytics]

Hmmm. Was post-fall Adam gullible? He wasn't the one that fell for the religion the protestant preacher learned from Lucifer.

Maybe Adam overprioritized the truth. Who's to say his life wouldn't have been better had he joined the community that was led by the confused preacher and Lucifer? They were all fine people, I'm sure.

Maybe he was simplistic. Naïve. Simple minded. Callow. Sophomoric.

Post-fall Adam was many things. But he was not gullible.

Hmmm. OK, so not gullible enough that when the devil shows up with horns and a barbed tail Adam is going to fall for it. I take that level of sophistication to be very helpful to Gods who need a set-up for moving Adam in the direction They want him to go. Poor, gullible Adam never even realized that this devil was a prop.

Just to understand where you're coming from, would would a righteous non-gullible Adam have done?

[Kishkumen]

Just to understand where you're coming from, would would a righteous non-gullible Adam have done?

There is no righteous non-gullible Adam at that point. The whole story is about impossible dilemmas. The impossible dilemma of the fruit of knowledge. The impossible dilemma of being righteous in the eyes of a Deity that sets up impossible dilemmas. Adam cannot avoid the minister. He will end up in the arms of the minister and the Lucifer whom he has rejected because he will fail to live up to everything he has covenanted to do.

[Analytics]

Just to understand where you're coming from, would would a righteous non-gullible Adam have done?

There is no righteous non-gullible Adam at that point. The whole story is about impossible dilemmas. The impossible dilemma of the fruit of knowledge. The impossible dilemma of being righteous in the eyes of a Deity that sets up impossible dilemmas. Adam cannot avoid the minister. He will end up in the arms of the minister and the Lucifer whom he has rejected because he will fail to live up to everything he has covenanted to do.

I had an institute teacher at USU that really influenced the way I see the impossible dilemma. He suggested that if Eve and Adam would have refrained from eating the fruit, Elohim would have eventually come back and said, "Okay, you have waited long enough. I now command you to eat the fruit." His position was that disobedience and unrighteousness are not essential parts of the plan of salvation. Adam could have fallen without disobeying. Jesus could have atoned for our sins without being betrayed and crucified. Things could have worked out.

But I recognize that's a radically unusual reading.

Assuming he had a choice, perhaps Adam's wisest and most righteous course of action would be to walk away when Elohim tried to coerce him into covenanting to obey the laws of obedience and sacrifice.

[Kishkumen]

I had an institute teacher at USU that really influenced the way I see the impossible dilemma. He suggested that if Eve and Adam would have refrained from eating the fruit, Elohim would have eventually come back and said, "Okay, you have waited long enough. I now command you to eat the fruit." His position was that disobedience and unrighteousness are not essential parts of the plan of salvation. Adam could have fallen without disobeying. Jesus could have atoned for our sins without being betrayed and crucified. Things could have worked out.

But I recognize that's a radically unusual reading.

Assuming he had a choice, perhaps Adam's wisest and most righteous course of action would be to walk away when Elohim tried to coerce him into covenanting to obey the laws of obedience and sacrifice.

Interesting. Cool. In the spirit of what you have written, I would say that a truly non-gullible Adam realizes he is already one of the Elohim and goes on his way accordingly.

[LittleNipper]

I think what we are really talking about is the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

What I honor about the post-fall Adam as depicted in the temple is his simple dedication to the Truth with a capital T. He wasn’t looking for a religious belief that he would find satisfying. He was dedicated to what’s actually true and wasn’t going to believe or commit to anything that didn’t align with that simple reality.

In that sense, he reminds me of the new atheists.

We know nothing about Adam after the Fall, except that he fathered at least 3 sons (Cain and Abel and Seth). And apparently Eve thought that Cain might be the SAVIOR (read through the Genesis account). It can be assumed that there were daughters and that the family originally intermarried (brothers with sisters). We also know that Noah was at least 9 times generationally removed from Adam... But the TEMPLE and before that the Tabernacle of the nation of Israel were representations of CHRIST and what HE would accomplish when HE arrived as the MESSIAH.

[Kishkumen]

We know nothing about Adam after the Fall, except that he fathered at least 3 sons (Cain and Abel and Seth). And apparently Eve thought that Cain might be the SAVIOR (read through the Genesis account). It can be assumed that there were daughters and that the family originally intermarried (brothers with sisters). We also know that Noah was at least 9 times generationally removed from Adam... But the TEMPLE and before that the Tabernacle of the nation of Israel were representations of CHRIST and what HE would accomplish when HE arrived as the MESSIAH.

Thank you for sharing your perspective as representative of your and your co-religionists’ beliefs, who I am collectively taking as your “we.”

[LittleNipper]

We know nothing about Adam after the Fall, except that he fathered at least 3 sons (Cain and Abel and Seth). And apparently Eve thought that Cain might be the SAVIOR (read through the Genesis account). It can be assumed that there were daughters and that the family originally intermarried (brothers with sisters). We also know that Noah was at least 9 times generationally removed from Adam... But the TEMPLE and before that the Tabernacle of the nation of Israel were representations of CHRIST and what HE would accomplish when HE arrived as the MESSIAH.

Thank you for sharing your perspective as representative of your and your co-religionists’ beliefs, who I am collectively taking as your “we.”

Born-again, Bible-believing, Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Christians.

[Kishkumen]

Born-again, Bible-believing, Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Christians.

Indeed!

[LittleNipper]

Born-again, Bible-believing, Fundamentalist, Evangelical, Christians.

Indeed!

You see, real Christians do not specifically equate belonging to a denomination with their own salvation. They will see their salvation as a relationship with GOD the FATHER through GOD the SON and being baptized through the spiritual indwelling of GOD the SPIRIT.