Church membership numbers not good.

[dastardly stem]

I think I may have side tracked the thread with my comments concerning the high rate at which temples are being announced, prepared for construction, and built. That, in my opinion, this is an indicator of church growth and health where it really counts. That is, in the lives of those that hold on to the iron rod and move forward in faith.

There were some that didn’t agree and then…well, you know.

You have a good day/week also.

Regards,
MG

I'm not so sure about growth related to more temples. It appears to me many temples announced and very few are very busy. The busy ones, for sure, remain busy, but the new ones usually aren't full time operations, like busy ones. For the most part you can't travel to temples and show up during work hours and do sessions. They aren't operating all the time. YOu have to learn when they operate and often get an appointment as I understand it. I think more temples speaks far more to Church wealth than healthy growth. But, until we get more information from the Church I suppose we're left speculating.

[Morley]

And virtue signaling doesn’t make your argument, whatever it is…you didn’t say, any stronger.

Which part of what I said is “virtue signaling”? That I know some Mormons? You’re kidding me. I’m not sure that you know what that term means.

From where I sit I think/know there are many members of the church and other Christians who would agree that BLM(think corrupt folks at the top), Democratic Socialists (think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders), Antifa (need I say more?), Marxists, and elements of Big Tech, Academia, Media, and Popular Culture that are a danger to the Judaeo-Christian roots of our country.

I hope you’re wrong. It’s certainly not my experience that active “members of the church and other Christians” would engage in this kind of hate speech. (By the way, you left out your portrayal of Democrats and progressives, in your list of villains.)

Your portrayal of me as being somehow out of the mainstream of most of America in believing Christianity and traditional values are under attack is a false caricature made in order to somehow make your secular humanist positions look attractive or viable as the means to make and keep our nation the greatest country on earth.

I portrayed nothing. This is all you. You create a disgusting graphic and then claim it represents the views of mainstream Americans. My sin is to say that the Church is not that hateful. But you double down in claiming that it is.

But tell me. List these secular humanist views I hold. And tell me how each is destroying America and Christianity.

My guess is that you may no longer believe this to be true. If I’m wrong, let me know and I’ll take that statement back.

I don’t know what this means.

Notice that a while back I agreed with Huckleberry. Certain things need to always demand our vigilance. Women’s rights, opportunities for all people to succeed, etc. But there are folks that are demanding things that mainstream America doesn’t want (for example the elimination of the right to bear arms and;or dismantling/hobbling the 2nd Amendment). Those are the folks I’m describing as ‘woke’.

So this is all about the Second Amendment?

Are you woke? And what does that mean to you if this describes you?

Why you introduced this word into this conversation is something no one here can understand. Discussions of LDS Church membership statistics have little to do with “woke”.

[MG 2.0]

From where I sit I think/know there are many members of the church and other Christians who would agree that BLM(think corrupt folks at the top), Democratic Socialists (think Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Bernie Sanders), Antifa (need I say more?), Marxists, and elements of Big Tech, Academia, Media, and Popular Culture that are a danger to the Judaeo-Christian roots of our country.

MG, the figure being burned at the stake within your posted image is not labeled, ‘the Judaeo-Christian roots of our country’.

That is correct. The figure is called “Liberty”.

There has been a general trend in the way folks believe religious liberty is under attack from outside forces and some within the church.



This graphic is five years old. I don’t know that things have gotten any better.

America is now abandoning her historically held Judeo-Christian ethos in favor of an amoral secularism characterized by rampant materialism and hedonism. The effects of this are tragic: the rarity of lifelong marriage, a third of children without a father in the home, escalating urban violence, a press that no longer pursues objective truth, massive predatory corporations dominating the economy, deteriorating student achievement scores and widespread welfare entitlement.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ ... story.html

You may take issue with the source/site but this is a fairly comprehensive list of ten organizations that are antagonistic to Judaeo-Christian values:

https://valleyfamilyforum.org/crossroad ... rinciples/

These organizations are not pro liberty in regards to religious values being promoted in the public square. These organizations promote ‘woke’ values.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

Why you introduced this word into this conversation is something no one here can understand. Discussions of LDS Church membership statistics have little to do with “woke”.

I’m not so sure. See my previous post.

Regards,
MG

[Dr Exiled]

MG, the figure being burned at the stake within your posted image is not labeled, ‘the Judaeo-Christian roots of our country’.

That is correct. The figure is called “Liberty”.

There has been a general trend in the way folks believe religious liberty is under attack from outside forces and some within the church.



This graphic is five years old. I don’t know that things have gotten any better.

America is now abandoning her historically held Judeo-Christian ethos in favor of an amoral secularism characterized by rampant materialism and hedonism. The effects of this are tragic: the rarity of lifelong marriage, a third of children without a father in the home, escalating urban violence, a press that no longer pursues objective truth, massive predatory corporations dominating the economy, deteriorating student achievement scores and widespread welfare entitlement.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/ ... story.html

You may take issue with the source/site but this is a fairly comprehensive list of ten organizations that are antagonistic to Judaeo-Christian values:

https://valleyfamilyforum.org/crossroad ... rinciples/

These organizations are not pro liberty in regards to religious values being promoted in the public square. These organizations promote ‘woke’ values.

Regards,
MG

Is there really an attack on religious liberty or is it really religious leaders upset at people turning away from religion, from a loss of their power? Case in point, E. Oaks suddenly bemoans the supposed loss of religious liberty when the Supreme Court ruled against him in Obergefell. The decision didn't stop people from practicing their chosen religion, it was a decision that diminished the power of the priest class over the rest of society. No one lost their liberty. Oaks and his ilk were forced down the mountain a little bit but nothing in that decision prevented people from believing in whatever they want. Likewise, a little competition from secularists is probably good. It shows the weakness of religious belief. It shows that religious base their beliefs on mere hope of what some self-proclaimed holy person claims to have experienced or heard. It puts religious belief in the proper place, diminished to the point of being irrelevant to decision-making.

[MG 2.0]

I think I may have side tracked the thread with my comments concerning the high rate at which temples are being announced, prepared for construction, and built. That, in my opinion, this is an indicator of church growth and health where it really counts. That is, in the lives of those that hold on to the iron rod and move forward in faith.

There were some that didn’t agree and then…well, you know.

You have a good day/week also.

Regards,
MG

I'm not so sure about growth related to more temples. It appears to me many temples announced and very few are very busy. The busy ones, for sure, remain busy, but the new ones usually aren't full time operations, like busy ones. For the most part you can't travel to temples and show up during work hours and do sessions. They aren't operating all the time. YOu have to learn when they operate and often get an appointment as I understand it. I think more temples speaks far more to Church wealth than healthy growth. But, until we get more information from the Church I suppose we're left speculating.

I’m sure speculation is fun. We can, however, look at individual instances where temples are being built in outlying areas of the church to see what brings temples into given geographical areas.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has announced it will break ground for a temple in Nairobi, Kenya to serve its growing followers in the region.

The groundbreaking ceremony for the Nairobi temple is scheduled for September 11th, 2021 with officials at the US-based church indicating that attendance will be by invitation only.

A site location and exterior rendering for the Nairobi temple which will be East Africa and eight in the continent have yet to be released. The September 11th event in the Kenyan capital will be presided over by Elder Joseph W. Sitati, president of the Africa Central Area and native of Kenya.

The construction of a temple — a setting for key Mormon blessings allowed nowhere else — signifies the strong roots the Salt Lake City headquartered church has established in Kenya. About 540,000 Mormons live in Africa and 15,000 in Kenya, making for two stakes and 54 congregations in the country.

Mormon missionaries first arrived in Kenya in the 1980s but the religion was shunned as a cult and anti-Christian. The faith group has since gained acceptance and registered with the Kenyan government in 1993.

https://www.mwakilishi.com/article/keny ... in-nairobi

In this case it had to do with growth and need. This may not be uncommon.

Regards,
MG

[MG 2.0]

…a little competition from secularists is probably good. It shows the weakness of religious belief. It shows that religious base their beliefs on mere hope of what some self-proclaimed holy person claims to have experienced or heard. It puts religious belief in the proper place, diminished to the point of being irrelevant to decision-making.

Wow.

This is where ‘woke’ mentality leads. It’s real.

Regards,
MG

[toon]

Just to get back to the topic,


Hi d stem, what’s the deal with a quota like that? I hope someone can figure that out, I’m sure it’s just a random setting from the switchover.

Anyway, I like seeing your charts so I hope you don’t mind I experimented with posting your ibb link to see if it would bring them over as images:

At least you tried.

I think this is interesting, but I think we’ll need at least a couple years before we can distinguish the impacts of COVID from other membership trends.

Thank you for putting this together.

[malkie]

…a little competition from secularists is probably good. It shows the weakness of religious belief. It shows that religious base their beliefs on mere hope of what some self-proclaimed holy person claims to have experienced or heard. It puts religious belief in the proper place, diminished to the point of being irrelevant to decision-making.

Wow.

This is where ‘woke’ mentality leads. It’s real.

Regards,
MG

It's real - and it's a good thing.

I believe that the US has made a constitutional decision about the place of religion in decision making. The religious right (which seems to include a lot of Mormons) would like it to be otherwise, and would turn the country into a theocracy if they could. They would like a "Christian" dictatorship, which would strip many individuals (Christian or not) of their rights. It's already happening at the state level.

[huckelberry]

That is correct. The figure is called “Liberty”.

There has been a general trend in the way folks believe religious liberty is under attack from outside forces and some within the church.


America is now abandoning her historically held Judeo-Christian ethos in favor of an amoral secularism characterized by rampant materialism and hedonism. The effects of this are tragic: the rarity of lifelong marriage, a third of children without a father in the home, escalating urban violence, a press that no longer pursues objective truth, massive predatory corporations dominating the economy, deteriorating student achievement scores and widespread welfare entitlement.


You may take issue with the source/site but this is a fairly comprehensive list of ten organizations that are antagonistic to Judaeo-Christian values:

https://valleyfamilyforum.org/crossroad ... rinciples/

These organizations are not pro liberty in regards to religious values being promoted in the public square. These organizations promote ‘woke’ values.

Regards,
MG

MG, the fact that I do not agree with the selection of government policies promoted by the religious right does not mean I am stopping religious liberty. Well unless by religious liberty you mean your right to dictate to others and have those others just fallow along.

This linked article speaks as though the existence of atheist organizations is an injury to Christian liberty. I can only see that as disregard of the very principal of liberty. Under the principal of liberty people are allowed to not only think thoughts you do not agree with but to promote government policies you do not like.

I can understand a concern for society loosing moral concern and clarity. I see things in the Christian world which show people choosing money power and influence over Christian principals. I see the same in the nonbelieving population. The struggle to get a better hold of moral values is one for all of us.