Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 4545
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Shulem »

Joseph Smith was not good enough to be classed as a prophet when it came to translating and interpreting Egyptian hieroglyphics and iconography. He failed the basic litmus and these failures bring us to the obvious conclusion that he is not to be trusted when it comes to translating languages he does not understand.

Sorry Joseph, but you were wrong and we have figured it out. We have shined the light on you and around your workings. We know better! I testify that Joseph Smith was not a true prophet and that his Egyptian revelations were wrong.

I say this in the name of mother Isis,

Amen.

:D
hauslern
Valiant A
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:36 am

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by hauslern »

Kerry Muhlestein wrote:
Many critics have claimed that Joseph Smith’s translation of Egyptian papyri and his interpretation of Egyptian drawings do not match with what Egyptologists would say about these things.

Now that he has purchased his copy of Tamas Mekis book on hypocephalus. Tamas located the holdings in all the museums and libraries. Smith tries to interpret the pictures but nothing about the writing. Many of them are exactly like fac 2.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1It7 ... 08ktw/edit

Here are the holdings of the British Museum. Note how many are similiar to fac 2.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... pocephalus
note EA 35875

Tamas Mekis interprets the various registers. Without mentioning facsimile 2
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fc7 ... t3DDc/edit

How much more evidence do you need Kerry? We know Dan checks this board out. Perhaps he can persuade you to comment. We are all ears. (except the slave/anubis)
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Philo Sofee »

hauslern wrote:
Tue May 10, 2022 9:33 pm
Kerry Muhlestein wrote:
Many critics have claimed that Joseph Smith’s translation of Egyptian papyri and his interpretation of Egyptian drawings do not match with what Egyptologists would say about these things.

Now that he has purchased his copy of Tamas Mekis book on hypocephalus. Tamas located the holdings in all the museums and libraries. Smith tries to interpret the pictures but nothing about the writing. Many of them are exactly like fac 2.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1It7 ... 08ktw/edit

Here are the holdings of the British Museum. Note how many are similiar to fac 2.
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collectio ... pocephalus
note EA 35875

Tamas Mekis interprets the various registers. Without mentioning facsimile 2
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fc7 ... t3DDc/edit

How much more evidence do you need Kerry? We know Dan checks this board out. Perhaps he can persuade you to comment. We are all ears. (except the slave/anubis)
Can I just give a little help to the apologists and say Mekis's transliteration on pg. 288 - jr.t=k
jAb.t m manD.t jnH.wj=k
is kinda close to Joseph Smith's Egyptian word "Krak Mah Kraw"...? Is that allowed within the parameters of LDS apologetic metrics to ancient Egyptian? if you look at it for a little while. NO! Don't take your eyes off it, just stare for a bit and let our mind flow... there, now do you see it? keep looking... if it helps, perhaps cross your eyes? Hey, anything to help out verify Joseph Smith, so perhaps a 3 hour stare session along with fasting and prayer can crack this kraw as it didn't Joseph's...
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 3093
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Moksha »

Did Joseph mention anything similar to "Hathor-cow before Sons of Horus, baboons adoring four-headed Ram of Mendes and barques"?

  • What was a barque in Egypt? A royal boat used by ancient Egyptians to transport statues of gods or mummies.
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 4545
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Shulem »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 4:54 am
Can I just give a little help to the apologists and say Mekis's transliteration on pg. 288 - jr.t=k
jAb.t m manD.t jnH.wj=k
is kinda close to Joseph Smith's Egyptian word "Krak Mah Kraw"...? Is that allowed within the parameters of LDS apologetic metrics to ancient Egyptian? if you look at it for a little while. NO! Don't take your eyes off it, just stare for a bit and let our mind flow... there, now do you see it? keep looking... if it helps, perhaps cross your eyes? Hey, anything to help out verify Joseph Smith, so perhaps a 3 hour stare session along with fasting and prayer can crack this kraw as it didn't Joseph's...

This reminds me, and it's rather eerie, of one of my old apologetic tricks I used to support the Catalyst theory on my old website wherein I defended the prophet Joseph Smith at any cost. You probably recall that I never at anytime accepted or considered the Missing Roll theory as credible and dismissed it outright. As a lone wolf apologist, I led the charge for in behalf of full fledged Catalyst theory. Here is an example of using the catalyst in order to support Smith's modus operandi for how a seer might read ancient languages:

Suppose there was a story in the Bible of a prophet who claimed that an old clay document having strange characters contained the lost Book of Isaac. Let's suppose this prophet translated the tablets through inspiration of God, although it was unknown to him that the document had nothing to do with the patriarch Isaac or his life's story. Now, suppose this prophet prepared a manuscript and placed the unknown characters in registers on the left side of each page. Then he offers explanations of what the characters represented in effort to produce the Book of Isaac.

Who can say that something can't be revealed when concentrating on an unrelated symbol or character? A spiritual translator can receive direct revelation from God as a story unfolds within his mind. In this case, ancient writing helps to stimulate the mind into a state of supernatural concentration while the Spirit of God breathes new scripture.

Suppose the See-er deeply stares at the character through a hole in a seer stone — concentrate — look — stare some more, and inspired thoughts flow. Behold, the Book of Isaac comes forth! The clay tablets and the writing on them are only a representation of the original document. Thus, it was used to stimulate thought, transcending the literal meaning of the characters, a revelation was given. Revelations, dreams, visions, and the like often use abstract symbolism and transform it into concrete ideology, as we have plenty of examples in scripture, i.e.: Ezekiel, Daniel, John the Revelator, etc. I see no reason to invalidate this kind of spiritual translating, because with God all things are possible.

A conventional translation will prove the prophet was wrong but a true nonconventional interpretation will prove the prophet was correct. Joseph Smith translated the original papyrus (lost in antiquity) using a nonrelated (funerary) papyrus as a proxy. In short, the papyrus served as a catalyst to open the door to things that pertain to the mysteries of godliness.
User avatar
Moksha
God
Posts: 3093
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 3:13 am
Location: Koloburbia

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Moksha »

Shulem wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 1:42 pm
Suppose the See-er deeply stares at the character through a hole in a seer stone — concentrate — look — stare some more, and inspired thoughts flow. Behold, the Book of Isaac comes forth!
Hold the Lotus by the stem and chant, Namu Myōhō Renge Kyō. Suddenly a vast image of Spiritus Mundi shall appear and say, "Paul, my good and faithful servant, have a Diet Coke along with Kerry's bacon-wrapped, cheese-infused smoked bratwurst".
Cry Heaven and let loose the Penguins of Peace
hauslern
Valiant A
Posts: 179
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 2:36 am

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by hauslern »

I found this discussion of his work in Egypt interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... n_license/
Marcus
God
Posts: 1493
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 10:44 pm

Re: Kerry Muhlestein's Brand New Article TODAY and My Take on it

Post by Marcus »

hauslern wrote:
Tue May 17, 2022 11:16 am
I found this discussion of his work in Egypt interesting.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mormon/comment ... n_license/
Especially this
Muhlestein said… "If we want to use the term loosely…."
That sums up a classic mopologetics technique perfectly. If he had published his “loose” use of the term mummification in an lds venue, everything would have been fine. But doing it in the real world gets a 28 year project derailed and BYU dismissed from the effort.

The final paragraphs
The point here is that that Muhlestein's tendency to present exaggerated and unfounded scholarly conclusions is not limited to the field of Mormon studies. His failure to properly identify mummies got himself and BYU kicked out of Egypt for a while.

He practices in an arcane field, and it is difficult for most Latter-day Saints to determine whether his opinions regarding Egyptology are valid. It is hard for us to know whether he is correct when he claims that Egyptians practiced human sacrifice as opposed to state-sanctioned killings or executions. It is hard for us to know whether a random Egyptian papyrus really says "Abraham on the couch" or if its just a love spell with mumbo jumbo words. None of us know Egyptian and he expects us all to accept his opinions on faith.

However, we can know that 1) all of the best Egyptologists disagree with his opinions and 2) he's been kicked out of Egypt for overstating and exaggerating his scientific findings. Frankly, he hasn't earned our faith.
Post Reply