Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Don Bradley wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 5:07 am
Marcus wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 5:59 am
Although seriously, finding imaginary patterns simply because you assumed the patterns were there beforehand sounds like a much bigger problem.
It depends on the context. A number of evolutionary psychologists think that our tendency to err on the side of finding patterns is baked into our cognition by natural selection.
This is quite true, when some of them talk about how, at a fundamental (perhaps quantum) level, the base functions of the universe quite literally snap together and begin to layer up in complexity. This layering of functions literally creates recursion and naturally occurring patterns - perhaps this is why our minds engage in patternicity. It’s no wonder when people are tripping balls they in fact see geometric patterns and recursive imagery. Perhaps it’s the brain’s natural operating state, and these drugs alter its processes enough to allow our minds/consciousness to witness something ‘baked in’ to the fundamental actions of reality.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Marcus »

Don Bradley wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 5:07 am
Marcus wrote:
Wed May 18, 2022 5:59 am
[Although seriously, finding imaginary patterns simply because you assumed the patterns were there beforehand sounds like a much bigger problem.
It depends on the context. A number of evolutionary psychologists think that our tendency to err on the side of finding patterns is baked into our cognition by natural selection.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:07 pm

This is quite true, when some of them talk about how, at a fundamental (perhaps quantum) level, the base functions of the universe quite literally snap together and begin to layer up in complexity. This layering of functions literally creates recursion and naturally occurring patterns - perhaps this is why our minds engage in patternicity. It’s no wonder when people are tripping balls they in fact see geometric patterns and recursive imagery. Perhaps it’s the brain’s natural operating state, and these drugs alter its processes enough to allow our minds/consciousness to witness something ‘baked in’ to the fundamental actions of reality.

- Doc
you have a great point on this. I think Don missed the fact that I said “finding imaginary patterns” was the problem, not finding actual patterns or even potential actual patterns. Of course, it takes time to determine whether the patterns are there or not.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Marcus wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:19 pm
Don Bradley wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 5:07 am


It depends on the context. A number of evolutionary psychologists think that our tendency to err on the side of finding patterns is baked into our cognition by natural selection.
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:07 pm

This is quite true, when some of them talk about how, at a fundamental (perhaps quantum) level, the base functions of the universe quite literally snap together and begin to layer up in complexity. This layering of functions literally creates recursion and naturally occurring patterns - perhaps this is why our minds engage in patternicity. It’s no wonder when people are tripping balls they in fact see geometric patterns and recursive imagery. Perhaps it’s the brain’s natural operating state, and these drugs alter its processes enough to allow our minds/consciousness to witness something ‘baked in’ to the fundamental actions of reality.

- Doc
you have a great point on this. I think Don missed the fact that I said “finding imaginary patterns” was the problem, not finding actual patterns or even potential actual patterns. Of course, it takes time to determine whether the patterns are there or not.
For sure. I don’t assert anything definitively. Anecdotally, though, there seems to be a repetitive experience various users undergo when entering into an altered state vis a vis hallucinogenics that seem to correlate to the musings of certain philosophers and psychologists. Whether this is a ‘third eye’ seeing the ‘true nature’ of reality, or a common effect on brain functions I wouldn’t really know, and further, I don’t really know if it’s ultimately useful on any level outside an aesthetic experience.

- Doc
Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Rivendale »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:34 pm
Marcus wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:19 pm



you have a great point on this. I think Don missed the fact that I said “finding imaginary patterns” was the problem, not finding actual patterns or even potential actual patterns. Of course, it takes time to determine whether the patterns are there or not.
For sure. I don’t assert anything definitively. Anecdotally, though, there seems to be a repetitive experience various users undergo when entering into an altered state vis a vis hallucinogenics that seem to correlate to the musings of certain philosophers and psychologists. Whether this is a ‘third eye’ seeing the ‘true nature’ of reality, or a common effect on brain functions I wouldn’t really know, and further, I don’t really know if it’s ultimately useful on any level outside an aesthetic experience.

- Doc
I think the similarity of experiences are related to the fact we are the same species and fundamentally certain chemicals influence humans in a similar way. Think of anesthesia. Or aspirin. Ignoring the outliers of course it shows most of us have similar reactions to chemically altered states. Of course there is the possibility that evolutionary pressures have blinded us to many aspects of reality. We can't see like bats. We can't see like honey bees. So obviously there is reality happening forever hidden to our everyday experiences. Assuming a spiritual realm exists it does seem bat crap crazy that a drug is necessary to peel back the veneer of the veil. But then again, the natural man is an enemy of god so maybe he is protecting him/her/itself.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Don Bradley »

Doctor CamNC4Me wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 6:07 pm
Don Bradley wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 5:07 am

It depends on the context. A number of evolutionary psychologists think that our tendency to err on the side of finding patterns is baked into our cognition by natural selection.
This is quite true, when some of them talk about how, at a fundamental (perhaps quantum) level, the base functions of the universe quite literally snap together and begin to layer up in complexity. This layering of functions literally creates recursion and naturally occurring patterns - perhaps this is why our minds engage in patternicity. It’s no wonder when people are tripping balls they in fact see geometric patterns and recursive imagery. Perhaps it’s the brain’s natural operating state, and these drugs alter its processes enough to allow our minds/consciousness to witness something ‘baked in’ to the fundamental actions of reality.

- Doc
Doc,

This aspect of psychedelics is absolutely fascinating--their potential to lay bare some of the fundamental features of our perceptual systems.

Don
"People can find meaninglessness in just about anything if they convince themselves that there is no meaning in that thing." - The Rev. Dr. Lumen Kishkumen
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Kishkumen »

Marcus wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 5:48 pm
I’m not pretending, and my statement was sincere. As I posted on another thread
Who knows, eh? I don't know you. I don't trust you. We have no rapport, and we are not building any.

Marcus wrote:
Fri May 20, 2022 4:23 am
We seem to have settled on different approaches.
No, we have not. You have settled on accusing me of getting personal because you are being personal. You just can't own up to it.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Ryan Larsen »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 4:07 am
Moksha wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 3:41 am
Maybe "Church is true" could be interpreted to mean, "I'm one of the club. Count me in on your Saturday BBQs and seances".
I do a wickedly delightful bacon wrapped, cheese stuffed, bratwurst in the smoker. Sunday School at MY HOUSE!!!! :D
Professor, I would love to come to your house and discuss things over bratwurst.

Here’s my own theory on the Kinderhook Plates. I’d be interested in hearing your take on it. https://meditationsandmeaning.blogspot. ... x-how.html
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Shulem »

Ryan Larsen wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:23 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Sun May 15, 2022 4:07 am

I do a wickedly delightful bacon wrapped, cheese stuffed, bratwurst in the smoker. Sunday School at MY HOUSE!!!! :D
Professor, I would love to come to your house and discuss things over bratwurst.

Here’s my own theory on the Kinderhook Plates. I’d be interested in hearing your take on it. https://meditationsandmeaning.blogspot. ... x-how.html

I just wrapped up my concluding statement for Don Bradley's paper which he asked me to look over. The last post HERE serves to put Latter-day Saints on notice that the Catalyst theory is DOA and will be shot down the moment the Church officially launches it.

Paul Osborne, Dan Vogel, Kerry Shirts, RFM, and Bill Reel are locked and loaded and will destroy whatever presentation the Church thinks it can muster to vindicate the Book of Abraham. John Gee's knees will knock with holy terror and he will be powerless to counter an argument based on truth and backed by world scholarship.

Also, I've started my new Celestial thread on Anubis and it will prove absolutely devastating in showing the total dishonestly of those who published the Book of Abraham to meet with Smith's lying interpretations.

Also, when I begin my Celestial thread on Egyptian Chronology -- that will be the END. The Book of Abraham will be nuked and scholars of the world will stand behind me. The end is coming for the Book of Abraham.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Ryan Larsen »

Shulem wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 1:22 pm
Ryan Larsen wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 9:23 pm


Professor, I would love to come to your house and discuss things over bratwurst.

Here’s my own theory on the Kinderhook Plates. I’d be interested in hearing your take on it. https://meditationsandmeaning.blogspot. ... x-how.html

I just wrapped up my concluding statement for Don Bradley's paper which he asked me to look over. The last post HERE serves to put Latter-day Saints on notice that the Catalyst theory is DOA and will be shot down the moment the Church officially launches it.

Paul Osborne, Dan Vogel, Kerry Shirts, RFM, and Bill Reel are locked and loaded and will destroy whatever presentation the Church thinks it can muster to vindicate the Book of Abraham. John Gee's knees will knock with holy terror and he will be powerless to counter an argument based on truth and backed by world scholarship.

Also, I've started my new Celestial thread on Anubis and it will prove absolutely devastating in showing the total dishonestly of those who published the Book of Abraham to meet with Smith's lying interpretations.

Also, when I begin my Celestial thread on Egyptian Chronology -- that will be the END. The Book of Abraham will be nuked and scholars of the world will stand behind me. The end is coming for the Book of Abraham.
I will check those out when I get off work! I look forward to seeing what you have to say.

For right now, I don’t think we have to resort to the catalyst theory, because my theory hasn’t exactly been refuted.

For instance, the fact that Joseph Smith III, who was one of three who signed Emma’s bill of sale for mummies and the records of the mummies, said that William Smith sold the papyrus which contained the Book of Abraham. He also said that William sold some mummies, which is confusing, but considering that Emma’s bill of sale does not state that Emma is selling the Abraham record, and identifies the records being sold as records of the mummies (notwithstanding allusion to the papyrus torn from the male mummies breast, which Emma does not say she is selling but instead says that it was the reason Joseph had interest in acquiring the antiquities), it’s only an asdumption that the whole papyri collection was sold.

We need to research things like Joseph Smith III’s account.
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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Shulem »

Ryan Larsen wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:38 pm
For right now, I don’t think we have to resort to the catalyst theory, because my theory hasn’t exactly been refuted.

For instance, the fact that Joseph Smith III, who was one of three who signed Emma’s bill of sale for mummies and the records of the mummies, said that William Smith sold the papyrus which contained the Book of Abraham. He also said that William sold some mummies, which is confusing, but considering that Emma’s bill of sale does not state that Emma is selling the Abraham record, and identifies the records being sold as records of the mummies (notwithstanding allusion to the papyrus torn from the male mummies breast, which Emma does not say she is selling but instead says that it was the reason Joseph had interest in acquiring the antiquities), it’s only an asdumption that the whole papyri collection was sold.

We need to research things like Joseph Smith III’s account.

Well, the deal is, you may not have much of a choice. It's your Church leaders that will decide which of the two theories they eventually may decide to go with. Once that determination is made and it's expressed through official channels then it's a done deal. Live with it or jump ship!

As far as the mummies being of a royal family even that of Pharaoh -- well, that requires a Catalyst theory in and of itself because there is no way in hell or on God's green earth that they were royal mummies. Joseph Smith did NOT have a king of Egypt in his possession. Joseph was just as deluded as his batty mother. Anything the Church tries to produce to defend the idea that Smith had a royal family of mummies will be quickly batted down by Egyptologists.
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