Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 4545
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Shulem »

MormonDiscussionInc wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 2:32 pm
. . . . As far as I can tell, Both of these theories would require absurd amounts of pretzel twisting and mental gymnastics to continue to uphold them. And The remaining theory by Ed Goble is completely untestable hence it is even worse than the "Missing scroll theory" and like that theory is indiscernible from a fraud. And with the mountains and mountains of other sticky issues in favor of the critics conclusion (Mormonism isn't true and sure as hell isn't what it claims), we are left unable to go any further. Mormonism is a dead branch, from a dead tree, in a dead forest.

Amen.

Well said and a good essay.

;)
User avatar
Doctor CamNC4Me
God
Posts: 4578
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:04 am

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Don Bradley wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 8:42 am
I'm working to figure out Joseph Smith's engagement with the Egyptian papyri in his possession, including by what processes the various documents (the Book of Abraham manuscripts, the "Valuable Discovery," the Egyptian Counting document, the EA documents, and the GAEL) were produced, relate to one another, when and in what order they were produced, and how their contents were derived. That is a long-term project that will require a lot more analysis of the sources.
Thanks for popping in, Don. Are you hanging your current research somewhere so interested parties can follow along?

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
K Graham
God
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:25 am

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by K Graham »

This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
Philo Sofee
God
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Oct 29, 2020 1:18 am

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Philo Sofee »

K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory
You are a treasure Kevin! LOVE these links!
Fifth Columnist
Nursery
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:50 pm

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Fifth Columnist »

The nail in the coffin of the missing scroll theory was put in place by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith. They showed there was barely any missing papyrus and certainly not 42 feet (or whatever John Gee said it was).

It would be great if RFM or Mormonism Live did a show dissecting the papers that were produced on this topic.
Cook and Smith's original paper (link)
Gee's Response (link)
Cook's response to Gee (link)
Chap
God
Posts: 1701
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:42 am
Location: On the imaginary axis

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Chap »

Fifth Columnist wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:40 am
The nail in the coffin of the missing scroll theory was put in place by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith. They showed there was barely any missing papyrus and certainly not 42 feet (or whatever John Gee said it was).

It would be great if RFM or Mormonism Live did a show dissecting the papers that were produced on this topic.
Cook and Smith's original paper (link)
Gee's Response (link)
Cook's response to Gee (link)
Yup. Those exchanges were the kicker. I remember working through the math myself, and it became clear that Gee simply didn't have the ability to deal with that kind of calculation. But there really was no way out for him, given the known measurements of the surviving scrolls and of the separation of the folds that showed the length of the layers of spiral winding.

Those were the great days, when large herbivorous apologists roamed the plains, and offered an easy target for the hungry hunters of this board. Alas, the species has been pretty well driven to extinction. What remains is hardly worth the effort of pursuit.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 4545
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Shulem »

K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory

Thank you for your contributions and service in defending truth. The name KEVIN GRAHAM will forever be etched in stone when it comes to defending ancient Egypt. Your name will be recorded in the history books read by future people who are yet to be born. Thank you, Kevin. It's an honor to have you as part of the team.

You are one of the winners. Long live the name, Kevin Graham.
User avatar
Shulem
God
Posts: 4545
Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:40 am
Location: Facsimile No. 3

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Shulem »

Chap wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:39 am
Those were the great days, when large herbivorous apologists roamed the plains, and offered an easy target for the hungry hunters of this board. Alas, the species has been pretty well driven to extinction. What remains is hardly worth the effort of pursuit.

Oh, but it's time to put John Gee out of his misery. By the time I'm done showcasing Egyptian chronology vs. Smithology and pit it against his fake Egyptus story, the gig will truly be up. Up until now, the critics have utterly failed to utilize the single most important key aspect in disproving Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham. Go for the neck! Take out the eyes! Slit the throat and it's over. It all boils down to the origin point of Smith's Book of Abraham which is little more than fabricated fantasy.

It's time to slay the beast. And I will.

:twisted:
User avatar
Kishkumen
God
Posts: 2974
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:37 pm
Location: Cassius University

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by Kishkumen »

This whets my appetite for reading Dan Vogel’s book on Book of Abraham apologetics. That said, I think it is curious that people continue to be interested in debunking the missing scroll theory and Joseph Smith’s non-ability to translate ancient Egyptian.

I suppose we all need hobbies.
“Academia’s continual campaign to disregard or neglect the classics is a sign of spiritual decay, moral decline and a deep intellectual narrowness running amok in American culture.” ~ Cornel West
K Graham
God
Posts: 1640
Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:25 am

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Post by K Graham »

Shulem wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:50 am
K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory

Thank you for your contributions and service in defending truth. The name KEVIN GRAHAM will forever be etched in stone when it comes to defending ancient Egypt. Your name will be recorded in the history books read by future people who are yet to be born. Thank you, Kevin. It's an honor to have you as part of the team.

You are one of the winners. Long live the name, Kevin Graham.
You crack me up. :lol:
"I am not an American ... In my view premarital sex should be illegal" - Ajax18
Post Reply