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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:16 pm
by dastardly stem
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:56 pm
I'm saying there's little difference, as I see it, between personal testimonies of the LN Monster and God or the spirit world. Not that there isn't any difference on the claim or validity of the claims themselves.
There is a huge difference between a cryptid that is alleged to live in a lake in Scotland and millennia of experiences of divinities.
An yet, whenever anyone who supports either notion speaks personally about how they know their position is true, they sound eerily similar.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 4:21 pm
by Moksha
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:15 pm
I'm saying there's little difference, as I see it, between personal testimonies of the LN Monster and God or the spirit world. Not that there isn't any difference on the claim or validity of the claims themselves.
No one issues encyclicals for the Loch Ness Monster or apologetics for why he was not seen at noon on the 22nd. Corporations do not thrive in his name nor does he hold out hope for the fish in Loch Ness.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 5:16 pm
by Marcus
Moksha wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:21 pm
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:15 pm
I'm saying there's little difference, as I see it, between personal testimonies of the LN Monster and God or the spirit world. Not that there isn't any difference on the claim or validity of the claims themselves.
No one issues encyclicals for the Loch Ness Monster or apologetics for why he was not seen at noon on the 22nd. Corporations do not thrive in his name nor does he hold out hope for the fish in Loch Ness.
Have you checked with the tourist industry? I’m guessing you’d find out that there is money to be made by facilitating such belief. Maybe CruiseLady does a tour.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 5:19 pm
by Rivendale
Marcus wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 5:16 pm
Moksha wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:21 pm
No one issues encyclicals for the Loch Ness Monster or apologetics for why he was not seen at noon on the 22nd. Corporations do not thrive in his name nor does he hold out hope for the fish in Loch Ness.
Have you checked with the tourist industry? I’m guessing you’d find out that there is money to be made by facilitating such belief. Maybe CruiseLady does a tour.
Ancient aliens, Search for Bigfoot, Ghost hunters are huge on the discovery channel.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 7:38 pm
by K Graham
Chris Smith just posted this to his social media account:
"A number of years ago, Andrew Cook and I wrote a paper estimating how much length is missing from the end of the Hor scroll (one of the Joseph Smith papyri) using spiral geometry. To avoid subjective judgments, we used a computer technique called "autocorrelation" to identify repeating patterns of damage on the scroll.
In a recent Egyptological study (nothing to do with Mormons), an author opted not to use our autocorrelation technique because, in the author's opinion, “the results [derived from their method] are no better than eyeballing.” The author provided no evidence or further comment to back up this dismissal.
To be honest, this is the kind of thing you say about a technique when using it would be a lot of effort or you don't have the expertise, and you need to justify the omission in order to get published. I get it; I probably wouldn't bother either, if I were in this author's shoes. I only bring it up because Steve Smoot's been citing this author's dismissal as proof that our method is bad, and a couple people have asked me about it. For the record, the author proves no such thing."
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:23 pm
by Kishkumen
dastardly stem wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 4:16 pm
An yet, whenever anyone who supports either notion speaks personally about how they know their position is true, they sound eerily similar.
That has not been my experience, but maybe I don't get out enough.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 9:35 pm
by Kishkumen
Marcus wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:38 pm
Ok. I will assume then you are referring to interactions that are spiritual in nature, and that there is no factual, non-spiritual evidence of these entities, or of their sentience.
Assume away. I don't know that in every case people think of such things as spiritual, and the perception of some of them can be induced in a laboratory setting, but I know that this is usually seen as a strike against them.
Human experience that is interpreted as interaction with other sentient entities may be pervasive, but there is also significant research and knowledge about how the brain works that explains these interpretations. There is no evidence that these experiences are explained by anything like sentient entities outside the brain. I grant it’s a belief, but the pervasiveness of brain activity only convinces me of the pervasiveness of brain activity. And of the incredible and amazingly wondrous expanse of the human imagination (a.k.a. brain activity).
Yes, I am aware of that. Have read some of these findings. Of course, to observe what is happening in the brain during an experience does not equal the brain being the definitive source of the experience itself. We are a long way from getting to the bottom of everything going on here, in my opinion.
I think it is fair to say that we will probably continue in the same respective veins from here on out.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 10:09 pm
by Doctor CamNC4Me
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:03 pm
Marcus wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 2:37 pm
Could you clarify who you are referring to when you say “other sentient entities” ?
Why? What difference does it make? That would be one helluva long list.
So. Panpsychism it is?
- Doc
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:27 pm
by Rivendale
Doctor CamNC4Me wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 10:09 pm
Kishkumen wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 3:03 pm
Why? What difference does it make? That would be one helluva long list.
So. Panpsychism it is?
- Doc
That is funny. Critics always accuse Dan Dennett of believing a thermostat is technically alive. I guess some people find no problem in moving it to the atoms.
Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live
Posted: Thu May 19, 2022 3:37 am
by Philo Sofee
K Graham wrote: ↑Wed May 18, 2022 7:38 pm
Chris Smith just posted this to his social media account:
"A number of years ago, Andrew Cook and I wrote a paper estimating how much length is missing from the end of the Hor scroll (one of the Joseph Smith papyri) using spiral geometry. To avoid subjective judgments, we used a computer technique called "autocorrelation" to identify repeating patterns of damage on the scroll.
In a recent Egyptological study (nothing to do with Mormons), an author opted not to use our autocorrelation technique because, in the author's opinion, “the results [derived from their method] are no better than eyeballing.” The author provided no evidence or further comment to back up this dismissal.
To be honest, this is the kind of thing you say about a technique when using it would be a lot of effort or you don't have the expertise, and you need to justify the omission in order to get published. I get it; I probably wouldn't bother either, if I were in this author's shoes. I only bring it up because Steve Smoot's been citing this author's dismissal as proof that our method is bad, and a couple people have asked me about it. For the record, the author proves no such thing."
Yes, thank you Kevin. I noticed Smoot used that as a way to ignore the Cook, Smith piece. I lambasted him anyway since, the piece fundamentally demonstrates gee's ludicrous claim of 43 missing feet was just stupidly wrong no matter how much "eyeballing" would ever be used......