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Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 3:22 pm
by Shulem
MormonDiscussionInc wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 2:32 pm
. . . . As far as I can tell, Both of these theories would require absurd amounts of pretzel twisting and mental gymnastics to continue to uphold them. And The remaining theory by Ed Goble is completely untestable hence it is even worse than the "Missing scroll theory" and like that theory is indiscernible from a fraud. And with the mountains and mountains of other sticky issues in favor of the critics conclusion (Mormonism isn't true and sure as hell isn't what it claims), we are left unable to go any further. Mormonism is a dead branch, from a dead tree, in a dead forest.

Amen.

Well said and a good essay.

;)

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Fri May 13, 2022 5:59 pm
by Doctor CamNC4Me
Don Bradley wrote:
Fri May 13, 2022 8:42 am
I'm working to figure out Joseph Smith's engagement with the Egyptian papyri in his possession, including by what processes the various documents (the Book of Abraham manuscripts, the "Valuable Discovery," the Egyptian Counting document, the EA documents, and the GAEL) were produced, relate to one another, when and in what order they were produced, and how their contents were derived. That is a long-term project that will require a lot more analysis of the sources.
Thanks for popping in, Don. Are you hanging your current research somewhere so interested parties can follow along?

- Doc

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
by K Graham
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:10 am
by Philo Sofee
K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory
You are a treasure Kevin! LOVE these links!

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 1:40 am
by Fifth Columnist
The nail in the coffin of the missing scroll theory was put in place by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith. They showed there was barely any missing papyrus and certainly not 42 feet (or whatever John Gee said it was).

It would be great if RFM or Mormonism Live did a show dissecting the papers that were produced on this topic.
Cook and Smith's original paper (link)
Gee's Response (link)
Cook's response to Gee (link)

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 8:39 am
by Chap
Fifth Columnist wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:40 am
The nail in the coffin of the missing scroll theory was put in place by Andrew Cook and Chris Smith. They showed there was barely any missing papyrus and certainly not 42 feet (or whatever John Gee said it was).

It would be great if RFM or Mormonism Live did a show dissecting the papers that were produced on this topic.
Cook and Smith's original paper (link)
Gee's Response (link)
Cook's response to Gee (link)
Yup. Those exchanges were the kicker. I remember working through the math myself, and it became clear that Gee simply didn't have the ability to deal with that kind of calculation. But there really was no way out for him, given the known measurements of the surviving scrolls and of the separation of the folds that showed the length of the layers of spiral winding.

Those were the great days, when large herbivorous apologists roamed the plains, and offered an easy target for the hungry hunters of this board. Alas, the species has been pretty well driven to extinction. What remains is hardly worth the effort of pursuit.

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 8:50 am
by Shulem
K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory

Thank you for your contributions and service in defending truth. The name KEVIN GRAHAM will forever be etched in stone when it comes to defending ancient Egypt. Your name will be recorded in the history books read by future people who are yet to be born. Thank you, Kevin. It's an honor to have you as part of the team.

You are one of the winners. Long live the name, Kevin Graham.

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 9:35 am
by Shulem
Chap wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:39 am
Those were the great days, when large herbivorous apologists roamed the plains, and offered an easy target for the hungry hunters of this board. Alas, the species has been pretty well driven to extinction. What remains is hardly worth the effort of pursuit.

Oh, but it's time to put John Gee out of his misery. By the time I'm done showcasing Egyptian chronology vs. Smithology and pit it against his fake Egyptus story, the gig will truly be up. Up until now, the critics have utterly failed to utilize the single most important key aspect in disproving Joseph Smith's Book of Abraham. Go for the neck! Take out the eyes! Slit the throat and it's over. It all boils down to the origin point of Smith's Book of Abraham which is little more than fabricated fantasy.

It's time to slay the beast. And I will.

:twisted:

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 11:22 am
by Kishkumen
This whets my appetite for reading Dan Vogel’s book on Book of Abraham apologetics. That said, I think it is curious that people continue to be interested in debunking the missing scroll theory and Joseph Smith’s non-ability to translate ancient Egyptian.

I suppose we all need hobbies.

Re: Missing Scroll Theory & Catalyst Theory in light of Mormonism Live

Posted: Sat May 14, 2022 12:46 pm
by K Graham
Shulem wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 8:50 am
K Graham wrote:
Sat May 14, 2022 1:01 am
This is more than a decade old, but in this thread I thoroughly debunk the missing scroll theory.

Missing Scroll Theory

Kep: Sequence Of Characters

This one is from 2007:

Why Nibley and Gee cannot be trusted

And of course, who could forget Will Schryver's cipher argument:

The Cipher Theory

Thank you for your contributions and service in defending truth. The name KEVIN GRAHAM will forever be etched in stone when it comes to defending ancient Egypt. Your name will be recorded in the history books read by future people who are yet to be born. Thank you, Kevin. It's an honor to have you as part of the team.

You are one of the winners. Long live the name, Kevin Graham.
You crack me up. :lol: