How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

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DrStakhanovite
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by DrStakhanovite »

In my opinion, if you are gonna go do the whole perennial philosophy shtick, you ought to go straight down the rabbithole with M. Guénon and his 'The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times'. Near as I can tell, the great Kali-Yuga seems almost upon us.

Guénon lays out for us the phases of destruction: Anti-Tradition, Pseudo-Initiation, and then the rise of Counter-Initiation when the true enemies of spirituality are made manifest. The markers of counter-initiation are fairly clear...
  • debased Esoterism
  • decrepit Syncretism
  • compromised hierarchy
  • History valued over Revelation
  • Promethean magic
  • Spiritual evolutionism as progress
There is a growing consensus that the above describes Bahaism, but I think it could describe the Brighamite Church as well. Take a spiritual inventory Don, because you've been swimming in the waters of the counter-initiation for years now.
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Kishkumen
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by Kishkumen »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow, Stak. You go straight for the jugular.

Observe, ye amateurs.

Stak knows how to pwn professionally, and he does it.

Take notes.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

It might help the lay person, so to speak, to know what the ‘traditionalist school of thought in regards to perennialism’ kind of means, especially since Dr. Stak brought Guenon up:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditi ... ennialism)

and probably what traditionalism means in ref to the “Brighamite” church (it’s very different):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditi ... nservatism

I would say the True church, as far as Mormonism goes, is traditionalism as defined by the wiki article right above. When their prophet strays from traditionalist values by issuing an outrageous edict such as ‘get your vaccine,’ he’s discarded for the transcendent traditionalist spiritual value of “I know better.”

- Doc
Last edited by Doctor CamNC4Me on Fri May 20, 2022 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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huckelberry
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by huckelberry »

DrStakhanovite wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 4:18 pm
In my opinion, if you are gonna go do the whole perennial philosophy shtick, you ought to go straight down the rabbithole with M. Guénon and his 'The Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times'. Near as I can tell, the great Kali-Yuga seems almost upon us.

Guénon lays out for us the phases of destruction: Anti-Tradition, Pseudo-Initiation, and then the rise of Counter-Initiation when the true enemies of spirituality are made manifest. The markers of counter-initiation are fairly clear...
  • debased Esoterism
  • decrepit Syncretism
  • compromised hierarchy
  • History valued over Revelation
  • Promethean magic
  • Spiritual evolutionism as progress
There is a growing consensus that the above describes Bahaism, but I think it could describe the Brighamite Church as well. Take a spiritual inventory Don, because you've been swimming in the waters of the counter-initiation for years now.
Dr Stakhonovite, a curious post you have made. I look up Kali Yuga and am told it is the current age and has been and will be for a long time. Then there are other theories are listed by googles search. I am left not knowing what you see coming. I am not sure Don Bradley has to join thought with Mr Guenon even if his thought has some similarity.

I am actually a bit curious about your Bahai comment. A consensus of whom? I do not see Bahai as particularly esoteric or, syncranistic. It could fit compromised hierarchy maybe. It is based on revelation so it is hard to see history over revelation applying . I do not catch what is intended by the last two characteristics. I think Bahai is longer on authoritarian dimensions than is sometimes advertised.
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by doubtingthomas »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:10 pm
I think Bahai is longer on authoritarian dimensions than is sometimes advertised.

I am interested in your opinion on DMT. DMT seems to be more miraculous than born-again experiences.

"More than half of those who identified as atheist before the experience no longer identified as atheist afterwards. The experiences were rated as among the most meaningful, spiritual, and psychologically insightful lifetime experiences, with persisting positive changes in life satisfaction, purpose, and meaning attributed to the experiences."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345112/

According to a researcher, "Why people encounter what appear to be non-human entities while on DMT but not on other drugs is currently unknown." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ity-part-1

Are DMT aliens real?
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by Kishkumen »

Marcus wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 11:35 am
I feel like we’ve retreated into some murky level of the dark ages here.
Talk about bad mythology and historical ignorance.
“If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.”~Thomas Pynchon, Gravity’s Rainbow
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by huckelberry »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:46 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:10 pm
I think Bahai is longer on authoritarian dimensions than is sometimes advertised.

I am interested in your opinion on DMT. DMT seems to be more miraculous than born-again experiences.

"More than half of those who identified as atheist before the experience no longer identified as atheist afterwards. The experiences were rated as among the most meaningful, spiritual, and psychologically insightful lifetime experiences, with persisting positive changes in life satisfaction, purpose, and meaning attributed to the experiences."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345112/

According to a researcher, "Why people encounter what appear to be non-human entities while on DMT but not on other drugs is currently unknown." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ity-part-1

Are DMT aliens real?
DoubtingThomas, I have no experience with DMT and do not know anybody who I know has. Some experience with other substances. I feel they may loosen thought patterns so new associations and awarness might happen. They may active dream formation which would be possible for DMT but that is just a maybe.

By the way Bahai would not be connected here. It refers to a religion from Iran started in the 19th century. It is related to Shai Islam.
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by Marcus »

Marcus wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 11:35 am
… It is a fact, confirmed and reconfirmed during two or three thousand years of religious history, that Ultimate Reality is not clearly and immediately apprehended except by those who have made themselves loving, pure in heart and poor in spirit.
I have more to say about the idea that religious endeavor is analogous to the results that come from building and using a telescope, but for a quick start, let’s consider this “fact,” as stated above. It’s a lovely sentiment, but it absolutely is not a confirmed fact. It has no empirical observability, no replicable or experimental structure, nothing that even remotely corresponds to the accepted use of the concept of a fact. The assertion that it has been confirmed and reconfirmed is ludicrous.

Do we even need to debate this? Come on, Don. I have no problem with you making an argument about spiritual feelings, but the above sentence in no way constitutes a statement of fact. It simply doesn’t. I feel like we’ve retreated into some murky level of the dark ages here.
Kishkumen wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 7:57 pm
Talk about bad mythology and historical ignorance.
:lol: :lol: calling something a fact when it is not? Preach it brother!
doubtingthomas
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by doubtingthomas »

huckelberry wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:16 pm
doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 6:46 pm



I am interested in your opinion on DMT. DMT seems to be more miraculous than born-again experiences.

"More than half of those who identified as atheist before the experience no longer identified as atheist afterwards. The experiences were rated as among the most meaningful, spiritual, and psychologically insightful lifetime experiences, with persisting positive changes in life satisfaction, purpose, and meaning attributed to the experiences."
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32345112/

According to a researcher, "Why people encounter what appear to be non-human entities while on DMT but not on other drugs is currently unknown." https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... ity-part-1

Are DMT aliens real?
DoubtingThomas, I have no experience with DMT and do not know anybody who I know has. Some experience with other substances. I feel they may loosen thought patterns so new associations and awarness might happen. They may active dream formation which would be possible for DMT but that is just a maybe.
Do you acknowledged that DMT appears to be more miraculous than born-again experiences?
"I have the type of (REAL) job where I can choose how to spend my time," says Marcus. :roll:
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Re: How Would We Know of a Spiritual Reality?

Post by huckelberry »

doubtingthomas wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 11:39 pm
huckelberry wrote:
Thu May 19, 2022 10:16 pm
DoubtingThomas, I have no experience with DMT and do not know anybody who I know has. Some experience with other substances. I feel they may loosen thought patterns so new associations and awarness might happen. They may active dream formation which would be possible for DMT but that is just a maybe.
Do you acknowledged that DMT appears to be more miraculous than born-again experiences?
I think born again refers to something larger in time and relationships than an experience.

What is the difference between miraculous and more miraculous?
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