Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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drumdude
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Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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Why an Afterlife Obviously Exists: A Thought Experiment and Realer Than Real Near-Death Experiences (John Hunt Publishing, 2022)

In this book it is argued that it is beyond astronomically likely and hence empirically certain that an afterlife exists in light of the following four non-controversial facts about the NDE:
1. The overwhelming majority of people who have an NDE become personally convinced of the reality of survival and an afterlife based on their experience, and the prevalence of this aftereffect is strongly correlated with the depth of the NDE.

2. An "NDE-er" will more often than not say that the reality they encountered while they were going through this experience was a lot more real than this reality we participate in as humans on a daily basis, and the prevalence of this attribute is strongly correlated with the depth of the NDE.

3. More than forty years of scholarly research has shown that no physiological, psychological, nor sociological predictor has yet been identified as either necessary or sufficient to cause or prohibit an NDE or its depth when someone has a survived proximity to death. Therefore, NDEs are equal opportunity experiences and "NDErs" as a sample are representative of the population as a whole. The percentage of subtle, deep, and profound "NDErs" who were uncertain about or skeptical of the existence of an afterlife prior to their NDE is therefore roughly the same as the percentage of people who are uncertain about or skeptical of the existence of an afterlife in the population as a whole. Similarly, the percentage of subtle, deep, and profound "NDErs" who are generally trustworthy, skeptical, rational, and sane is roughly the same as the percentage of people who are generally trustworthy, skeptical, rational, and sane in the population as a whole.

4. Millions of people, probably even tens of millions of people, have had NDEs.

I couldn't be more relieved. Millions, billions of humans have been fretting wondering if death is the end and here we finally have empirically certain proof that death is not the end.

Shout out to Daniel Cosmos Peterson for bringing to light this massive discovery about the fundamental nature of reality and human existence.
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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An "NDE-er" will more often than not say that the reality they encountered while they were going through this experience was a lot more real than this reality we participate in as humans on a daily basis, and the prevalence of this attribute is strongly correlated with the depth of the NDE.
What the hell does that mean?

This sounds like a really wacky work.
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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DCP must be really afraid of death. How often does the NDE subject come up on his blog? At least once a month it seems.

We get it. There is a small possibility, sure, DCP, that NDE's happen. So what?
Myth is misused by the powerful to subjugate the masses all too often.
drumdude
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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I think the argument is undercut by its own definition, given the fact that these are all *near* death experiences. I.E. they are still just alive experiences. You can have lots of different alive experiences under different physical conditions. You can do drugs or have an orgasm (or in DCP's case eat an expensive meal) so great it feels like you've just seen God, but is that any convincing evidence that God exists?
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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drumdude wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 7:41 pm
I think the argument is undercut by its own definition, given the fact that these are all *near* death experiences. I.E. they are still just alive experiences. You can have lots of different alive experiences under different physical conditions. You can do drugs or have an orgasm (or in DCP's case eat an expensive meal) so great it feels like you've just seen God, but is that any convincing evidence that God exists?
Miracle Max: “There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do, go through his clothes and look for loose change.” - The Princess Bride.

Spot on. We only hear about near death experiences from the living, and never hear about death experiences, where a dude dies for a few weeks, then comes back and resumes their life as a dentist or volleyball coach or whatever. I guess it could be awkward.
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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From the literature I have read there has never been any successful identification of information strategically placed in hospital ER rooms. Numbers on top of lights or shelves and similar tests. And again almost all accounts have never brought any useful information back. Why is that? It is almost all emotional descriptions of whatever religious culture they are raised in. Intercessory prayer studies are even worse. And notice nobody ever meets Cro-Magnon man or a Neanderthal. Now that could be some useful information. Lucy could tell us where to find all of her other family members for current study. Kennewick man could settle the dispute of whether or not the calcium carbonate was deposited before or after he died. And he could explain his wounds he received before death. And think of the murder mysteries that could be solved. You would think with all the unsolved murders at least one spirit could name drop the culprit. NDE in hell could be extremely useful for all the people who crave for the balance of justice to be fulfilled for some of our most heinous villains. A description of Hitler's daily routines could be the succor of delight for some.

Dr Eben Alexander gives us his description,
In the sky, there were plush marshmallow-like clouds of pink and white, and the land was populated with tall trees, sweeping valleys, and groups of joyous people dancing in harmony wearing peasant clothing.
So why are we here? To suffer.
he veil is part of the “programmed forgetting,” an intentional loss of memories from past lives and between lives that gives us “skin in the game.” That is the emotional buy-in to our status as “individual souls” to live our lives to the fullest. Hardships serve as the engine for our soul’s growth and the growth of other souls with whom we are connected.
drumdude
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

Post by drumdude »

Reflexzero wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 8:12 pm
drumdude wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 7:41 pm
I think the argument is undercut by its own definition, given the fact that these are all *near* death experiences. I.E. they are still just alive experiences. You can have lots of different alive experiences under different physical conditions. You can do drugs or have an orgasm (or in DCP's case eat an expensive meal) so great it feels like you've just seen God, but is that any convincing evidence that God exists?
Miracle Max: “There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do, go through his clothes and look for loose change.” - The Princess Bride.

Spot on. We only hear about near death experiences from the living, and never hear about death experiences, where a dude dies for a few weeks, then comes back and resumes their life as a dentist or volleyball coach or whatever. I guess it could be awkward.
Yep exactly. Death used to be defined as cessation of heartbeat. So with that definition the people were actually “dead” and came back to life.

We’ve since learned that irreversible brain damage is really the better definition of death. If someone can have irreversible brain damage, then have a near death experience, then come back to tell us what happened then some of the arguments in Dans blog post might start to make sense. But of course none of that makes any sense at all. Our selves die when a critical percentage of the brain cells that make up our selves die.

That very common sense idea is what Dan derogatorily calls “fundamentalist materialism.”
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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Why an Afterlife Obviously Exists: A Thought Experiment and Realer Than Real Near-Death Experiences is making me lol (underline mine):
Jens Amberts wrote: Right now, in practice, philosophy also advances one funeral at a time. We can only really hope that the philosophy world addresses the fact that the history of philosophy and the contemporary state thereof is a quagmire of ideological stubbornness and individual dogma more seriously at some point, and put much more emphasis on encouraging the next generations of philosophers to be acutely aware of it from the very start so that they do not have their own set of core beliefs set in stone.

And sadly, that many aspiring and budding philosophers, who might otherwise be more open-minded than their professors, are still reluctant to take the NDE seriously probably has to some degree to do with the fact that it is not currently seen as a serious alternative for those who wish to pursue a career in academic philosophy and eventually get tenure to do so. In other words, they will have to hide or downplay their interest in NDEs while still on the track to getting tenure and relative financial security, since, for instance, publishing articles that are friendly to the survivalist interpretation of NDEs in the most prestigious philosophy journals is currently next to impossible. And this is the case not because the quality of the data or the arguments are subpar, but rather because of how controversial and taboo the nature of the subject itself currently is to many if not most academic philosophers. Therefore, if or when the survivalist interpretation of NDEs becomes recognized by the profession as the respectable majority stance in the future, then at least this and the end of the last century will probably be seen as very embarrassing episodes in the history of philosophy when, at the very least, there was a serious failure of curiosity and courage of monumental proportions to investigate the NDE more enthusiastically, objectively, fairly, and extensively. At least right now it can be said, metaphorically speaking, that the academic philosophy world is sleeping so soundly, peacefully, and innocently in the starfish position on the topic of NDEs that you can practically hear the collective snoring even from outer space. (p.25-26)
The introduction is kind of one long rant about the author's hobby-horse not being taken seriously.
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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Here is some examples of the kind of argumentation you'll get in Chapter 4. Highly repetitive...
Jens Amberts wrote:All of this is brought up because it is important to realize why NDErs themselves are so sure of their claimed experience of the afterlife, because if they did not have epistemic justification for their newfound convictions it would mean a lot less that they were convinced. The fact that they are coming back saying that due to these reasons they are more sure that they experienced the afterlife than they have ever been sure about anything in this world, however, is as good an epistemic justification as anything (outside of theoretical philosophy) can ever hope to be. To the extent that we are justifiably sure about the existence of this world, NDErs are even more justifiably sure about the existence of the afterlife, since all the reasons we have for being certain of the existence of this world are vastly amplified for the NDEr regarding their reasons for being certain of the existence of an afterlife. What better reason could they possibly have for asserting that their NDE was real and not a brain-generated hallucination, other than the fact that their NDE was vastly more real in every relevant way than the experience of this reality? (p.61-62)
Jens Amberts wrote:When we wake up from a dream, it is the enormous difference in the perception and feeling of realness that immediately and justifiably removes all rational doubt that this world is more real than our dreams. When this happens again during an experience of a higher reality than this life, how could it all of a sudden be irrational to have the same reaction with the same epistemic justification? While some would argue that it could be our brains generating an illusory experience of a higher reality, it is important to understand and truly appreciate that this is as unlikely from the perspective of an NDEr as the idea that it is the brains of our dream characters that are currently generating this experience of daily life is unlikely to us, for precisely the same reasons. Our dreams, no matter how phenomenologically impressive or persuasive they may be while we are still in them, are still realized as vastly less phenomenologically impressive than daily life when we wake up from them. Therefore, they are all realized as self-evidently not real when we wake up back to daily life. And the same is true when we wake up from this life during an NDE. No matter how phenomenologically impressive or persuasive all the phenomenological qualities that the experience of this world admittedly is, it is still hardly even comparable to the vastly more impressive degree of all phenomenological qualities of the experience of the NDE world. So to ask NDErs to take seriously the possibility that it might have been their brains fooling them is about as reasonable as asking ourselves to take seriously the notion that it is the brains of our dream characters that are currently fooling us and generating this entire experience of everyday life. (p.63-64)
Jens Amberts wrote:Of course, it is and always will remain logically possible that NDEs are actually caused by brain chemistry anyway somehow, but a clear understanding of what having an NDE is phenomenologically like on a conceptual level should lead us to the understanding that it is extremely unlikely that NDEs are actually caused by brain chemistry. Indeed, it is just as unlikely, if not more so, as the possibility that our experience of everyday life right now is actually and ultimately caused by the brain chemistry of our dream characters. (p.92)
Jens Amberts wrote:When we are impressed or swayed by the neurophysiological argument we are essentially impressed or swayed by a specific degree of a consistent pattern at this everyday life level of experience. And since the experience of an NDE is known to be vastly more impressive than the experience of everyday life in all phenomenological aspects, the vastly enhanced degree of the consistent pattern of the higher reality is vastly more impressive and justifiably convincing in all ways. Therefore, neither the neurophysiological argument nor materialism as a whole have any rational relevance or sway left for the sufficiently deep NDEr, or for the person who thoroughly understands the phenomenology of an NDE on a conceptual level and the philosophical gravity thereof. (p.94)
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Near Death Experiences prove the afterlife exists

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Rivendale wrote:
Tue May 24, 2022 9:26 pm
… and groups of joyous people dancing in harmony wearing peasant clothing.

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Hugh Nibley claimed he bumped into Adolf Hitler, Albert Einstein, Winston Churchill, Gertrude Stein, and the Grand Duke Vladimir Romanoff. Dishonesty is baked into Mormonism.
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