Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 8:38 pm
Dr Exiled wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 7:42 pm
You, for some reason, feel it necessary to come over here and save the poor lost souls or tell us your beliefs and mix in a few barbs along the way.
You are just as free to express your views. And yes, we all mix in a bit of ribbing along the way. Some ribbings are more hurtful than others and some folks are more sensitive than others.

We should be careful to not say and/or do that would be considered to be actual harm.

I can set people off very easily as I cut against the grain of their settled view of non belief in the LDS Church and its leaders. I don’t think it’s me personally as much as the fact I am traveling on very sensitive ground.

Regards,
MG
Was this the manmade fabrication that sent you into a tailspin?

Image
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
drumdude
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by drumdude »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:32 pm
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:24 pm


“If I could do just one thing, it would be to dissociate faith from virtue, now and for good, and to expose it for what it is, a servile weakness, a refuge in cowardice, and a willingness to follow, with credulity, people who are in the highest degree unscrupulous.” - C H

The Bretheren have made it very easy to not have faith in them. They are the part of Mormonism you can actually see. And here they are being duped by a serial murderer, not a single one of these men of God with a shred of prophesy, seeing, or revelatory powers.

Mark-Hoffman.jpg
They too have/had individual choice and/or initiative in what they did/do.

Regards,
MG
If credulity is a virtue then following these bumbling old men should get you into VIP heaven for sure.
MG 2.0
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by MG 2.0 »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 9:42 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:32 pm


They too have/had individual choice and/or initiative in what they did/do.

Regards,
MG
If credulity is a virtue then following these bumbling old men should get you into VIP heaven for sure.
From what I’ve observed and seen I think any one of these men could go toe to toe mano to mano with any one of you folks here.

The fact that you try to end an argument through using a pejorative says something right there. My gut feeling is that you haven’t been around long enough and had the life experience necessary to appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.

And natural intelligence.

Armchair quarterback. Yep. 😉

Regards,
MG
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Morley »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:47 pm
My gut feeling is that you haven’t been around long enough and had the life experience necessary to appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.
What specific and unique goodness and spiritual power do these men possess? What fruit do these trees bear?
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by drumdude »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:47 pm
appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.
A picture tells a thousand words. They have no power of discernment, and they're not prophets. If there were ever a time for a prophet to use their superpowers, Hoffman was it. Lives were literally at stake, and were lost over it.
Mark-Hoffman.jpg
Mark-Hoffman.jpg (97.99 KiB) Viewed 48 times
Philo Sofee
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG
From what I’ve observed and seen I think any one of these men could go toe to toe mano to mano with any one of you folks here.
I'll take on Jeffrey Holland with the Joseph Smith Papyri for FREE Bill...........I would SO LOVE to debate Holland on this issue...
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

MG,

Was it Prop 8, the manmade fabrication, that sent you into a tailspin? Or was that the 2015 Policy of Exclusion where Jesus’ atoning power was denied to children and teens of homosexual parents? Or was it the 2019 reversal of said policy, you know, pushed through by a Prophet, that made your faith dizzy?

What manmade fabrications tanked your faith for a while?

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Philo Sofee »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:42 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:47 pm
appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.
A picture tells a thousand words. They have no power of discernment, and they're not prophets. If there were ever a time for a prophet to use their superpowers, Hoffman was it. Lives were literally at stake, and were lost over it.

Mark-Hoffman.jpg
This very picture was one of my serious shelf stressers.
Philo Sofee
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Philo Sofee »

MG
My gut feeling is that you haven’t been around long enough and had the life experience necessary to appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.
I have.
MG 2.0
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by MG 2.0 »

drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:42 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 10:47 pm
appreciate the goodness and spiritual power these men possess.
A picture tells a thousand words. They have no power of discernment, and they're not prophets. If there were ever a time for a prophet to use their superpowers, Hoffman was it. Lives were literally at stake, and were lost over it.

Mark-Hoffman.jpg
Which was very sad. I found it difficult at the time to see/look at that picture also. I along with I’m sure many others asked themselves why didn’t God put a stop to something so heinous and evil?

From the church’s Gospel Library app:

Hofmann deceived not only Church leaders and historians with his forgeries but also his family and friends, archivists and librarians, and other experts. The Church acquired several documents from him, and his forgeries became the subject of both scholarly inquiry and public discussion.

The greatest tragedies connected to the Hofmann forgeries are the deaths of Kathy Sheets and Steven Christensen. The forgeries also posed challenges to the work of manuscript and book collectors and dealers, historians, and archivists. While police investigation linked Hofmann to numerous forgeries, his networks of trade made it difficult to trace the extent and location of his work. Twelve years after the bombings, for example, a document believed by experts to be a genuine Emily Dickinson poem was linked to Hofmann. False assumptions inspired by Hofmann documents or citations that eventually lead back to his fabricated evidence still distort some depictions of Latter-day Saint history.

Since the 1980s the Church has published extensively on its early history, helping to foster a greater understanding of some of the obscure historical episodes that Hofmann exploited in his forgeries to shed a negative light on the Church. Church historians and archivists have also exercised increased vigilance in corroborating claims of document provenance and historical context with other evidence. The publication and digitization of Joseph Smith’s papers and many other important document collections has helped broaden the base from which to evaluate new discoveries.
There was some good that came from this unfortunate episode.

One thing that became rather obvious was that church leaders on a day to day basis don’t inquire of the Lord on every subject and every detail. They make business decisions mainly upon their own judgement and common sense. Which results in the same thing that happens with other business leaders. They can at times be off track or mistaken.

Joseph Smith and Co. didn’t fare so well with the Kirkland Safety Society. But it wasn’t the end of the restoration. And that same restoration continues today.

I suppose this is getting off topic, but I wanted to make a comment on this photograph from church history. Every picture tells a story, and this one is no exception.

I wonder if Nephi might have also made some errors in judgement along the way? If so, did that stop the Lehite expedition to the promised land?

We sure have a tendency to put people on pedestals. And to some degree I suppose that’s warranted.

The mantle is far greater than the intellect. The proof is in the pudding.

Would to God that we were all as gifted and intelligent as the folks here at DiscussMormonism!

Regards,
MG
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