Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

Was the Church lying about not practicing polygamy, but secretly allowing the good ol’ boys to do it one of those manmade fabrications that threw you for a loop, MG?

see: MormonismLive ep. 042 for details

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by drumdude »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:09 am
Would to God that we were all as gifted and intelligent as the folks here at DiscussMormonism!
Would that we could sell our non-existent prophetic services at DiscussMormonism to millions of credulous Utahns, we would only charge 5% of their gross income.

It's a no brainer, switch to the Church of Jesus Christ of the Super-Most Latterist (Any Day Now) Saints today!
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Chap »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:09 am
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:42 pm


A picture tells a thousand words. They have no power of discernment, and they're not prophets. If there were ever a time for a prophet to use their superpowers, Hoffman was it. Lives were literally at stake, and were lost over it.

Mark-Hoffman.jpg
[ ]

One thing that became rather obvious was that church leaders on a day to day basis don’t inquire of the Lord on every subject and every detail. [...] They can at times be off track or mistaken.

[ ]
Excuse me – but since it is apparently extremely important to obey the pronouncements of the prophets, how is it possible to tell, at the time they are actually making pronouncements, whether or not they are "off-track or mistaken"?

This is surely a vital point to which any true Mormon believer like yourself needs to have an answer, is it not? So what is your answer?
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by MG 2.0 »

Chap wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:50 pm
You used ellipses.

Regards,
MG
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Moksha »

MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:29 pm
You used ellipses.

Regards,
MG
Formal apologetic speak demands you say, "You used so-called "ellipses".
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Marcus »

Moksha wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:33 pm
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:29 pm
You used ellipses.

Regards,
MG
Formal apologetic speak demands you say, "You used so-called "ellipses".
eh-hem. you mean

"Formal/conventional apologetic/defense speak/language demands/insists you/everyone say/imply "you/mentagymnast used/advantaged so-called/alleged 'ellipses/stylistic device/metonymy/manner of speaking/malapropism."
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Chap »

OK. So here is all that you posted, with no ellipses.
MG 2.0 wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 1:09 am
drumdude wrote:
Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:42 pm


A picture tells a thousand words. They have no power of discernment, and they're not prophets. If there were ever a time for a prophet to use their superpowers, Hoffman was it. Lives were literally at stake, and were lost over it.

Mark-Hoffman.jpg
Which was very sad. I found it difficult at the time to see/look at that picture also. I along with I’m sure many others asked themselves why didn’t God put a stop to something so heinous and evil?

From the church’s Gospel Library app:

Hofmann deceived not only Church leaders and historians with his forgeries but also his family and friends, archivists and librarians, and other experts. The Church acquired several documents from him, and his forgeries became the subject of both scholarly inquiry and public discussion.

The greatest tragedies connected to the Hofmann forgeries are the deaths of Kathy Sheets and Steven Christensen. The forgeries also posed challenges to the work of manuscript and book collectors and dealers, historians, and archivists. While police investigation linked Hofmann to numerous forgeries, his networks of trade made it difficult to trace the extent and location of his work. Twelve years after the bombings, for example, a document believed by experts to be a genuine Emily Dickinson poem was linked to Hofmann. False assumptions inspired by Hofmann documents or citations that eventually lead back to his fabricated evidence still distort some depictions of Latter-day Saint history.

Since the 1980s the Church has published extensively on its early history, helping to foster a greater understanding of some of the obscure historical episodes that Hofmann exploited in his forgeries to shed a negative light on the Church. Church historians and archivists have also exercised increased vigilance in corroborating claims of document provenance and historical context with other evidence. The publication and digitization of Joseph Smith’s papers and many other important document collections has helped broaden the base from which to evaluate new discoveries.
There was some good that came from this unfortunate episode.

One thing that became rather obvious was that church leaders on a day to day basis don’t inquire of the Lord on every subject and every detail. They make business decisions mainly upon their own judgement and common sense. Which results in the same thing that happens with other business leaders. They can at times be off track or mistaken.

Joseph Smith and Co. didn’t fare so well with the Kirkland Safety Society. But it wasn’t the end of the restoration. And that same restoration continues today.

I suppose this is getting off topic, but I wanted to make a comment on this photograph from church history. Every picture tells a story, and this one is no exception.

I wonder if Nephi might have also made some errors in judgement along the way? If so, did that stop the Lehite expedition to the promised land?

We sure have a tendency to put people on pedestals. And to some degree I suppose that’s warranted.

The mantle is far greater than the intellect. The proof is in the pudding.

Would to God that we were all as gifted and intelligent as the folks here at DiscussMormonism!

Regards,
MG

And my question, directed towards the bolded blue words in your own text, still stands:
Chap wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 12:50 pm
Excuse me – but since it is apparently extremely important to obey the pronouncements of the prophets, how is it possible to tell, at the time they are actually making pronouncements, whether or not they are "off-track or mistaken"?

This is surely a vital point to which any true Mormon believer like yourself needs to have an answer, is it not? So what is your answer?
I look forward to hearing your answer to my specific question.
Maksutov:
That's the problem with this supernatural stuff, it doesn't really solve anything. It's a placeholder for ignorance.
Mayan Elephant:
Not only have I denounced the Big Lie, I have denounced the Big lie big lie.
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Shulem »

Chap wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:46 pm
I look forward to hearing your answer to my specific question.

Obey the prophet even when he's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about and even if he misinterprets what he thinks the Holy Ghost is telling him. Obey the prophet at any cost. And, pay your tithing.

You'll be blessed for doing that. You'll be blessed for checking your brain in and being duped by the cult. Mormon-man god requires absolute obedience and that absolutely obedience is obedience to the prophet. Do not question, just bow your head and be thankful that you're a member of the one true church.

:lol:
drumdude
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by drumdude »

Shulem wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:16 pm
Chap wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 3:46 pm
I look forward to hearing your answer to my specific question.

Obey the prophet even when he's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about and even if he misinterprets what he thinks the Holy Ghost is telling him. Obey the prophet at any cost. And, pay your tithing.

You'll be blessed for doing that. You'll be blessed for checking your brain in and being duped by the cult. Mormon-man god requires absolute obedience and that absolutely obedience is obedience to the prophet. Do not question, just bow your head and be thankful that you're a member of the one true church.

:lol:
MG with the classic apologetic strategy, the King Sacrifice

https://youtu.be/bTS9XaoQ6mg
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Doctor CamNC4Me
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Re: Interpreter apologists wrestle with Nephi’s transoceanic vessel

Post by Doctor CamNC4Me »

drumdude wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:08 pm
Shulem wrote:
Tue Jun 14, 2022 4:16 pm



Obey the prophet even when he's wrong and doesn't know what he's talking about and even if he misinterprets what he thinks the Holy Ghost is telling him. Obey the prophet at any cost. And, pay your tithing.

You'll be blessed for doing that. You'll be blessed for checking your brain in and being duped by the cult. Mormon-man god requires absolute obedience and that absolutely obedience is obedience to the prophet. Do not question, just bow your head and be thankful that you're a member of the one true church.

:lol:
MG with the classic apologetic strategy, the King Sacrifice

https://youtu.be/bTS9XaoQ6mg
Lol. That was perfect and a perfect analogy. MG’s greasy ‘ignorance-trumps-reality’ and passive-aggressive taunts while simultaneously ignoring every_single_shred of reality we’ve presented to him over the past 25 years just makes his comments about philosophy and other faiths so goddamn hollow that it’s become a parody of a ‘truth seeker’. When I talk about him being a liar it’s because his entire approach to discussing his inherited faith on this board has been one of a false premise and is false presenting. It’s all designed so he can be a missionary for the Cult. Any truth he’s been spoon fed is blithely sidestepped and then used as an opportunity to give Lesson One of the missionary discussions.

- Doc
1. Speech is aggression.
2. Every utterance has a winner or a loser.
3. Curiosity is feigned.
4. Lying is performative.
5. Stupidity is power.
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