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I can't recommend Radio Free Mormon enough. And honestly his best stuff is his solo work. Not that Mormonism Live isn't cool too. It's very cool. Maven brings a refreshing angle to the show. But, damn, these solo RFM shows have always been so effin' awesome. And they just continue to be awesome. Up to today. His installment about Under the Banner of Heaven on Hulu and Greek tragedy is just top quality public humanities work. I enjoyed every last minute of that episode. Now broadcasting that interview with Dan Lafferty and adding his quality commentary? Wow. Again, home run. Out of the park hit.

Thanks to RFM.

And, wow, that Dan Lafferty is totally creepy. Nothing speaks so eloquently about the danger these revelations that religious extremists can sometimes have than listening to the complete nonchalance of Dan Lafferty describe how the "spirit" directed him to slit the throats of a mother and baby.

Well done, RFM. Talk about making a person think. It isn't just about having clever things to say; it is about being very mindful about what you expose your students to. Thanks, professor!

Agreed and amen! Thanks for your diligent effort RFM!

That Lafferty interview is crazy. He role plays a pious zealot right up until the end, and then inexplicably says if he were free from jail he’d like to open a legitimate business, like a whorehouse. Ok, sociopath confirmed.

Dr Moore wrote: ↑

Tue May 31, 2022 4:07 pm

Agreed and amen! Thanks for your diligent effort RFM!

That Lafferty interview is crazy. He role plays a pious zealot right up until the end, and then inexplicably says if he were free from jail he’d like to open a legitimate business, like a whorehouse. Ok, sociopath confirmed.

Do you think Ron is also a sociopath? Or that Dan exploited his brother's sick revelations to follow through on actual murder for his sociopathic thrills?

It was fun just to hear Tom Barberi again. I listened to him every morning for years when I was driving. It was great that Consiglieri had the analog cassette recording of this interview converted into a digital format and put it on his podcast.

Let's hope that FAIR does not try to block it due to all the LDS theology Dan Lafferty was divulging.

Ron Lafferty, great example of what I think you need to make Divine Command Theory work.

If you're really invested in Divine Command Theory as DCP promotes it, then while Ron Lafferty might be a false prophet, a prophet should commit a similar act should it be the will and command of God. And there is no intuition to say it would never be the will of God to command such a thing.

Because only God knows his own will and pleasure, there is likewise, no guarantee about any rules, what might or might not possibly constitute a holy act by a prophet. I can't say that I'd expect a Ron Lafferty to legitimately arise. However, I can say that there is scriptural precedent to believe that God has no issues with killing mortals, and no issues with commanding a death, and is known to test the faithful for obedience by commanding death.

In a world where many people believe that right and wrong translate into what's good in material terms for people, the only way logically-minded humans are forced to acknowledge God's Trump card, is if there exists a chasm between the command, and what is materially good; or good by any other standard. Should God wish to make explicit what he's only toyed with in the past, then a divine Lafferty figure would drive the point home.

If, as DCP says, we're fooling ourselves by our phony morals which only express our tastes and preferences, then a God serious about separating those who serve their collective tastes and preferences from those who serve the decrees of God, must request his servants to act in ways that do not follow as imperatives from human-constructed norms. Not drinking coffee and tea doesn't work, because those things are neutral by social norms.

An alternative way of looking at this is that even if human-constructed norms and divine commands map up pretty well and God is happy with that, a person cannot be certain why they act in a way that is good. If God is not happy with atheists broadly being good people by accidently following many of his commands because they follow social norms, then it must be insisted that certain things are good that God has commanded that don't follow social norms. The more dramatic, the better. Picking controversial or inconsequential topics or the sacred cows of progressives to violate won't do, God must pick from the most broadly agreed upon social norms to violate. In fact, for a DCT theologian to resist coming up with meaningful examples by picking low-hanging fruit, it just shows that the theologian is beholden to consequentialist thinking.

That's why in my opinion, my first Book of Mormon teacher at BYU who was a Harvard theology Phd said without flinching, that if the prophet commands you to kill somebody, then you do it and be blessed for it.

There can now be absolutely no repugnancy for praising the Lafferty's anymore than there is for praising Abraham. Just as there can be no moral outrage from Mormons about Warren Jeffs whilst praise for Joseph Smith. The Lafferty's prove the stupidity of the Abraham story. If Abraham is praised, it is entirely consistent to brag on the Lafferty's for obeying God all the way through. If that doesn't styme Mormons, nothing will. If this is not a serious wake up call to Mormons and their Holy Ghost revelations, I submit there never will be. This is absolute perfect contemporary - RIGHT NOW - proof of the silliness of Holy Ghost communication and testimony.

I apologize for making a duplicate thread about this, I was just too excited after hearing RFM's latest episode!!

Thank you so much Reverend Kishkumen, for your very very kind words. I have been going through an awful lot, some of which you know.

I’m working my way through it by podcasting, and it means the world to me that you appreciate it.

Praise from Caesar indeed!

Philo Sofee wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:06 am

proof of the silliness of Holy Ghost communication and testimony.

Even Bruce McConkie tacitly admitted this in his Our Relationship with the Lord devotional talk that he gave at BYU in March of 1982, during the time when Glenn Pace wrote that people should have a personal relationship with Jesus. (God forbid!)

Pace, who was a member of the First Quorum of Seventy, had written a book, What it Means to Know Christ. McConkie did not care for some of the advice given in this book, which included that people "should center their lives in Christ... and develop their own personal relationship with Him." Bzzzzz! McConkie shot back that members "should not strive for a special and personal relationship with Christ", and called Pace's work, "an unwise book."

McConkie uttered all kinds of goofy things in that talk. It is worth reading in it's entirely. I'll quote a few things germane to the topic at hand:

"Now, it is no secret that many false and vain and foolish things are being taught in the [Christian] sectarian world and even among up about our need to gain a special relationship with the Lord Jesus...

"It follows that the devil would rather spread false doctrine about God and the Godhead and induce false feelings with reference to any one of them, than almost any other thing he could do...

"I am well aware that some who have prayed for endless hours feel they have a special and personal relationship with Christ that they never had before...

"I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer's system to make people feel they are special friends of Jesus..."

Whaaaaaat? Lucifer making people feel things? Good and uplifting things... about Jesus? Yowzer!

The irony is thick. I have no idea how much self-awareness Conkie had about his own theological position, but he managed to undercut the very subjective epistemology that prospective members are advised to employ in obtaining a "testimony" about the Book of Mormon (Moroni's Promise), Joseph Smith's status as prophet, and the validity of the "restored" church, not to mention D&C 9 and all the business about burning bosoms and "feel[ing] that it is right" when seeking answers to spiritual questions.

Pardon the rejoinder, Bruce, but I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer's system to make people feel the Book of Mormon is true, that Joe was a true prophet, and that the LDS church is 'God's' true church.

What's good for the goose.

The entire Mormon edifice rests on having some kind of good feeling or witness from "the Holy Ghost" about the Mormon truth claims, starting with the Book of Mormon and "Moroni's Promise." If Lucifer can make people have positive "spiritual experiences", and good and uplifting feelings, then how does one determine whether an experience is from the Holy Ghost or Lucifer or some other source (such as one's own subconscious)? If my bosom burns after praying about the Book of Mormon, how do I know it's not Lucifer making me feel this way?

One answer that I've seen is the whole business in James about "asking God for wisdom", etc. However, there are two problems here. One, it assumes James is the authentic "word of God." How do we know that? Secondly, James's advice about obtaining wisdom does not mention anything about spiritual experiences. People obtain wisdom all the time through various sources. Maybe God indeed does grant wisdom when asked, but one never knows from whence the wisdom cometh. It could be from a book, from the TV, from a dog barking at just the right time. If you get some kind of spiritual experience you're right back to where you started with regards to the source and reliability of the experience. "Well, God wouldn't allow me to be deceived!" Time and time again people, in various religions, including Mormonism, including myself, have received spiritual experiences in answer to prayer, only to later find out the spiritual experience was undeniably bogus when confronted with cold hard facts of objective reality. Why would God allow Lucifer to give someone good, special, sacred, positive, uplifting feelings about having a special relationship to Jesus after much prayer and supplication? Unfortunately, McConkie isn't around for a cross-examination on the matter. Perhaps an apologist can field the question.

Spiritual experiences are no reliable criteria of truth. The foundation of Mormonism is in ruins.

(Curiously, according to the Book of Mormon, the Nephites had no problem with praying to Jesus and worshipping him. Jesus didn't seem to mind at all, and didn't correct them. 3 Nephi 11:16-17, 19:18,30. Maybe Bruce missed that part. )

drumdude wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 01, 2022 2:26 am

I apologize for making a duplicate thread about this, I was just too excited after hearing RFM's latest episode!!

I had previously made a thread about this on the Celestial Forum because I thought it would be of no interest to the posters on this forum.