The Church and Freemasonry

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Philo Sofee
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Philo Sofee »

Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
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George MillerPM
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by George MillerPM »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:51 pm
Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
Hey Kerry- Good to hear you are doing well. Its been years since we talked on the old Mormon Mystics board. Hopefully Don, you, and I can get together soon to talk Book of Abraham translation timeline work. I have some stuff that will blow your mind and seriously shake things up.
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George MillerPM
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by George MillerPM »

Fence Sitter wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:16 pm
Great thread!

Nice to see George Miller again, I hope you are doing well.

I m curious. Would the Mormon custom of calling each other "Brother so and so" have any roots in 19th century Masonry?

Thanks
Hey Fence Sitter- Sorry I have not been posting much over the past few years. I'm doing well.

As for your question, you are the third person to ask me about this. Sadly, there is no clear answer. Since Joseph Smith was extensively interested in and exposed to Freemasonry from an early age, it could have been Masonic influence. However, what clouds that interpretation is that I don't know if religious groups such as the Methodist, Baptistsl, Presbyterians, Congregationalists, or Universalists (all of which Smith had ready contact) also used the appellation "brother" in addressing each other. I have, sadly, not found an easy way to address this possibility and I am therefore not inclined to take a strong interpretive stance on the subject.
Philo Sofee
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Philo Sofee »

George MillerPM wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:03 am
Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:51 pm
Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
Hey Kerry- Good to hear you are doing well. Its been years since we talked on the old Mormon Mystics board. Hopefully Don, you, and I can get together soon to talk Book of Abraham translation timeline work. I have some stuff that will blow your mind and seriously shake things up.
It has been a loooong time! So GOOD to see you again brother! Yes, lets get together and chat with Don. I am very interested in seeing your timeline on the Book of Abraham materials. I have just finished a 20 video podcast series on it on Mormon Discussion Inc with my Live sessions as the Backyard Professor "Getting Clear on the Book of Abraham.
Fence Sitter
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Fence Sitter »

latterdaytemplar wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 6:44 pm
George MillerPM wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 3:50 pm
Reading his works gives a good outlook on the views of Freemasonry in the early 19th century. I have included some links to his works below of the volumes published during Joseph Smith's lifetime.

GEORGE OLIVER'S PUBLICATIONS
1823 The Antiquities of Freemasonry
1825 The Star in the East
1826 Signs and Symbols
1829 History of Initiation
1840 The Theocratic Philosophy of Freemasonry
1841 The History of Freemasonry
Thank you for providing these to me. I was looking for physical copies and was thinking that I'd have to save up quite a bit of money (still might, just for the pleasure of reading from a book instead of a screen; but I'm glad to have access to these digital copies in the meantime).

Unfortunately, it will probably be another day until I can respond to your latest large post; work has picked up and, shortly afterward, I'll be directing a degree practice.
I am with you on the pleasure of reading a physical book over digital. All those books except "The Star in the East" are available used on Amazon in a paperback modern reproduction for around $10 and "The Star in the East" is $20. I found a couple of them even cheaper on eBay.
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latterdaytemplar
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by latterdaytemplar »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:51 pm
Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
Thank you Brother! As was my experience with George MillerPM, I have had the pleasure of taking in some of your content in the years past. Very informative and I enjoy learning from you (although your videos on Chess always seem to escape me; but, then, so do all other videos, books, and explanations in other media about Chess that I've invested in, so that's clearly just a me problem).
Fence Sitter wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:22 pm
I am with you on the pleasure of reading a physical book over digital. All those books except "The Star in the East" are available used on Amazon in a paperback modern reproduction for around $10 and "The Star in the East" is $20. I found a couple of them even cheaper on eBay.
Yes, I've found a few of them that I'll be purchasing here within the next week or two. Gotta love the internet, one can find just about anything there!
"… Behold, we will end the conflict."
—Captain Moroni (Alma 44:10)

Whatever conflicts that you come across in life, they can be beaten. Adopt Captain Moroni's attitude: be of the disposition to end the conflict, and then act on that disposition.
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Doctor Steuss
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Doctor Steuss »

I am so sorry if I'm repeating something someone has already noted. Trying my best to read/remember everything from the thread, but I am not overly confident in myself.

George MillerPM wrote:
Tue Jun 07, 2022 4:17 pm
Physics Guy- As it turns out, multiple Mormons commented on the similarity in the Mormon and Masonic rituals during Joseph Smith's lifetime.
Not only that, but Joseph Smith apparently brought attention to the similarity himself, and provided the reason for it, claiming the Masonic rituals were taken from the Endowment.

From Joseph Fielding’s Nauvoo journal (Andrew Ehat's transcription, from BYU Studies 19, no.2):
Image

A letter from Heber C Kimball to Parley Pratt:
Br Joseph ses masonary was taken from preast Hood but has become degennated. but menny things are perfect.
Kimball also made a few other similar statements.

And from Benjamin Johnson's autobiography:
In lighting him to bed one night he showed me his garments and
explained that they were such as the Lord made for Adam from skins, and
gave me such ideas pertaining to endowments as he thought proper. He
told me Freemasonry, as at present, was the apostate endowments, as
sectarian religion was the apostate religion.
Philo Sofee
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Philo Sofee »

George MillerPM wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 1:03 am
Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:51 pm
Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
Hey Kerry- Good to hear you are doing well. Its been years since we talked on the old Mormon Mystics board. Hopefully Don, you, and I can get together soon to talk Book of Abraham translation timeline work. I have some stuff that will blow your mind and seriously shake things up.
I just read the massive and massively fascinating discussion you and Frater Literski and Frater Swick had on Common Consent several years back - https://bycommonconsent.com/2009/05/26/ ... nnections/

Absolutely delightful amounts of info!!! Man them were the good ole days. Did you ever get your book published? If so where? I would love to get it.
Don Bradley
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Don Bradley »

Philo Sofee wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 3:46 am

It has been a loooong time! So GOOD to see you again brother! Yes, lets get together and chat with Don. I am very interested in seeing your timeline on the Book of Abraham materials. I have just finished a 20 video podcast series on it on Mormon Discussion Inc with my Live sessions as the Backyard Professor "Getting Clear on the Book of Abraham.
Yes, please! :D

Don
"People can find meaninglessness in just about anything if they convince themselves that there is no meaning in that thing." - The Rev. Dr. Lumen Kishkumen
Philo Sofee
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Re: The Church and Freemasonry

Post by Philo Sofee »

latterdaytemplar wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2022 8:51 pm
Philo Sofee wrote:
Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:51 pm
Terrific discussion gents! I have been asked to produce some videos on my Live sessions of Freemasonry and Mormonism, and this info is most definitely very useful and enlightening. Thanks so much! I look forward to crediting both of you among others on my show!
Thank you Brother! As was my experience with George MillerPM, I have had the pleasure of taking in some of your content in the years past. Very informative and I enjoy learning from you (although your videos on Chess always seem to escape me; but, then, so do all other videos, books, and explanations in other media about Chess that I've invested in, so that's clearly just a me problem).
No worries, Chess gets beyond mer also! GRIN! I am enjoying your exposition here on Freemasonry. I am very glad Scratch invited you and you are here participating.
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