Re: “My nonchalant awesomeness hurt you?? Bummer.”: A Mopologetic Myth Deepens
Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 3:57 pm
How predictable is Muhlestein’s in his propensity to exaggerate other’s works to support his lds assumptions. It turns out way back in 2015, this statement of his was debunked. Here.Marcus wrote:Ok. I’d need to see the actual documentation for this because in my reading, KM has a problem with adequately documenting statements like this. He tends to play fast and loose with actual meaning.He said a study was conducted on other ancient Egyptian texts, and found that text is only associated with its adjacent picture 53 percent of the time. Thus, it is likely that Joseph Smith was not translating the text next to the picture after all, and his translation cannot be disproven.
_No_Hidden_Agenda wrote: ↑Wed Jul 22, 2015 8:53 pmAn enterprising enquirer over at Reddit reached out to one of the scholars referenced in the Church's Book of Abraham essay to inquire whether her work was being properly used by the church. Does not go well for the church:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... ed_in_the/
While reading the Church's Book of Abraham essay, I noticed a number of footnotes, some of which did not provide links to the documents they referenced, and some of the documents are in languages other than English (how convenient!...).
Reference 30 comes at the end of this paragraph:
The reference is to a piece written by Valérie Angenot. With some sleuthing, I was able to find an email address for Valérie and wrote her the following email:
Hi there,
First, I apologize for such a random email. Second, I apologize for beginning with an apology.
I had a question about an academic work you published some time ago, Discordance entre texte et image. Deux exemples de l’Ancien et du Nouvel Empires.
Now, I have not read it. I've tried to find an online version, but I cannot. I am curious because it was cited in an essay I recently read.
The LDS (Mormon) Church has recently written an essay in which they attempt to explain the origins of their canonized Book of Abraham. Most of the world of Egyptology, as I understand, has debunked the book thoroughly. But, in this essay, they cite your article as a defense of the fact that the various vignettes (which they insist are depictions of Abraham) have nothing to do with the surrounding text of the papyrus.
Do you feel that they are accurately representing the viewpoint of your published piece? Does your piece lend any legitimacy to their argument, in your opinion?
Again, I'm sorry for such a random email, but I am quite curious about your thoughts on the matter.
The article can be found here: https://www.lds.org/topics/translation- ... m?lang=eng
You are listed in reference 30.
Sincerely,
randomapologist
After some time, I received the following reply:
Hello,
I have to apologize, in my turn, for my lateness in getting back to you.
Your question is delicate to answer because I have very dear Mormon friends doing Egyptology. However, not being a Mormon myself, I cannot totally share their beliefs and analysis of the Book of Abraham.
What I can do is confirm that the reference to my article somewhat matches the statement "it was not uncommon for ancient Egyptian vignettes to be placed some distance from their associated commentary", although I'd say the process is most often used for connecting walls between them in a tomb or temple (as a microcosm) rather than used in papyrus (but this is still possible, I have not deepened the question).
The other thing I can do is attach my article for you to make your own idea of the arguments I defend in it. You may find it online as well on academia.edu
Hoping this will help.
All the best,
Valérie Angenot
The article can be viewed here.
I don't speak French, so I'm hoping some of you French-speaking RMs can help give some insight, but based on the movie poster examples given on the final page of the doc, I doubt this lends credibility to the idea that generic, ancient funeral docs might be randomly injected with stories about Abraham. Enjoy.