A practical personal test of Mormonism

[drumdude]

It's really simple. Do what New Name Noah did. Get a temple recommend with the intent to film the ceremony and mock it online. Or some similar legal but nefarious intent. Test a couple of Mormonism's truth claims. One up Moroni's Promise and Pascal's Wager with Norton's Experiment.

The first claim that priesthood leaders have something called the "spirit of discernment." According to the church: "Elder David A. Bednar of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles has taught that the gift of discernment can help us (1) 'detect hidden error and evil in others,' (“Quick to Observe,” Liahona, Dec. 2006)” If one were to obtain a temple recommend for the sole purpose of recording the ceremony and posting evidence of such here, the gift of discernment (if it exists) would presumably be able to thwart them.

The other claim in the ceremony itself. "God will not be mocked" is used as a threat towards anyone attending who might not take the ceremony seriously. Video recording the ceremony and sharing it online would presumably be considered mocking, and would be stopped by God himself.


Now obviously what New Name Noah did is morally debatable. It was certainly in bad taste, publicly denigrating a sacred religious ceremony the way he did. But regardless of the morality of it, it was still a test of Mormonism's truth claims. And how did the test turn out?

Mormonism performed exactly how you would expect a completely false religion would perform. New Name Noah's bishop did not stop him. The temple workers did not stop him. God did not stop him.

The only thing Mormons can say in response is that New Name Noah has it coming in the afterlife. But that is an unfalsifiable claim and it doesn't account in any way for the results of test. The simple fact of the matter is that Mormonism again looks and acts identical to a fraudulent religion. And you can test it for yourself, by doing exactly what Mike Norton did.

Maybe it's time to replace Moroni's challenge, to pray and see if you get warm fuzzy feelings, with Mike Norton's challenge. You too can try Brother Norton's challenge and know for yourself that the church is a fraud.

[dastardly stem]

I haven't paid much attention to this whole thing. As I recall he pretended to believe, went to a ward for a few months until he gained their trust and got a temple recommend...or something? Then went to the temple, recorded it...And I think he did that a couple of times? I can't see how he tested the veracity of it's claims. Mormons aren't claiming their spirit of discernment is infallible, nor that God intends to intervene whenever someone is up to nefarious things. What he did, or got away with, has no bearing whatsoever on whether the religion is true or not.

I don't think you have to pretend anything, nor lie to anyone to test the claims. All it seems he accomplished was upset people.

[drumdude]

I haven't paid much attention to this whole thing. As I recall he pretended to believe, went to a ward for a few months until he gained their trust and got a temple recommend...or something? Then went to the temple, recorded it...And I think he did that a couple of times? I can't see how he tested the veracity of it's claims. Mormons aren't claiming their spirit of discernment is infallible, nor that God intends to intervene whenever someone is up to nefarious things. What he did, or got away with, has no bearing whatsoever on whether the religion is true or not.

I don't think you have to pretend anything, nor lie to anyone to test the claims. All it seems he accomplished was upset people.

It was the first time the temple ceremony had been recorded and released publicly.

His next plan was to film a lesbian sex scene inside the temple. Needless to say that went over like a lead balloon among ex-Mormons. Which is why Mike isn't really on the radar anymore, probably.

[Moksha]

It was the first time the temple ceremony had been recorded and released publicly.

It would really be something if he could capture the nude clogging ceremony... from a dancing aesthetics standpoint.

[KevinSim]

If one were to obtain a temple recommend for the sole purpose of recording the ceremony and posting evidence of such here, the gift of discernment (if it exists) would presumably be able to thwart them. .... Video recording the ceremony and sharing it online would presumably be considered mocking, and would be stopped by God himself.

Emphasis added. You presume a lot, Drumdude.

[drumdude]

If one were to obtain a temple recommend for the sole purpose of recording the ceremony and posting evidence of such here, the gift of discernment (if it exists) would presumably be able to thwart them. .... Video recording the ceremony and sharing it online would presumably be considered mocking, and would be stopped by God himself.

Emphasis added. You presume a lot, Drumdude.

I know. It's pretty outlandish to expect God to act like... well, God.

But a horse isn't a horse, steel isn't steel, Joe can't reproduce the lost pages, nor translate Egyptian. That's where I ended up in Mormonism, you have to just stop presuming all the time that everything is what it says it is.

Brother Noah mocked God, it's still on Youtube, and they still play the recorded voice over the PA system in the temple hundreds of times a day, like the pirates of the Caribbean Disneyworld log ride. "God will not be mocked"

[KevinSim]

It's pretty outlandish to expect God to act like... well, God.

Drumdude, how do you know how God is supposed to act?

[drumdude]

It's pretty outlandish to expect God to act like... well, God.

Drumdude, how do you know how God is supposed to act?

They told me when I attended the endowment ceremony. "God will not be mocked."

[KevinSim]

They told me when I attended the endowment ceremony. "God will not be mocked."

And you're pretty sure what it means to mock God? I don't think some deity saying s/he will not be mocked obligates that deity to keep every person from getting a temple recommend that is planning to videotape the temple ceremony. Instead it's a statement that people who defy Her/Him will ultimately not prosper.

[Rivendale]

They told me when I attended the endowment ceremony. "God will not be mocked."

And you're pretty sure what it means to mock God? I don't think some deity saying s/he will not be mocked obligates that deity to keep every person from getting a temple recommend that is planning to videotape the temple ceremony. Instead it's a statement that people who defy Her/Him will ultimately not prosper.

Boggs did okay.

During the California Gold Rush, Boggs owned a store and did quite well. On November 8, 1849, Boggs resigned as alcalde and became the town's postmaster.